2018 FIFA World Cup

Started by Jakey, May 31, 2018, in Sports Add to Reading List

France or Croatia

  1. France

    59.2%
  2. Croatia

    40.8%
  1. Dread or Alive
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    Dread or Alive Kamikaze should've been released 3 years ago

    Jul 15, 2018


     
    Jul 1, 2022
  2. Rodamon
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    Jul 15, 2018
    i dont blame the defeat based on that, I just mean that modern football sucks for things like that. I am not even Croatian or a big football fan, lol, "love ur hate" chill bro
     
    Jul 1, 2022
  3. Dread or Alive
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    Dread or Alive Kamikaze should've been released 3 years ago

    Jul 15, 2018
    It does to be fair. Pisses me off seeing pele brag about an era where the vast majority of the players in the world cup weren't even Professionals and tactics were in it's infancy and even then Brazil was on top of the world. People like Pele make me dislike Brazil as a whole.

    Nowadays more than ever you need a quality team and at the very least solid tactical shape to not get beaten embarrassingly. Easy to win everything when you have no real competition. Tell f---ing Maradona to play 90 mins with Kante + Matuidi on your back then Varane and Umtiti assuming you even beat the first 2, then stop your team from conceding 4 against France. Then tell people about how f---ing great you are. Seriously football is at a state where individuals can't win entire tournaments by themselves. Not like basketball where there are only 5 players per team. Odly enough the teams that won the last few world cups were the best tactically organized ones, not necessarily the ones with the best player(s)
     
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  4. Alpha
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    Alpha

    Jul 15, 2018
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/d---/world-cup/2018/07/15/TELEMMGLPICT000169486447-xlarge_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqdEKusUCeKq9VS5XNTYK1PFeIlzld9KeYzVpi2Y2onXY.jpeg
    @Jakey or @Ordinary Joel I think this picture would be more appropriate as the banner.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
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  5. FrenchKick
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    Jul 15, 2018
    Was trolling bro. Just dont understand why put this on the table when both players of each team didnt choose their history. These players fought against their history to achieve to the final. What's terrible is that there is a winner and a looser at the end of the day.
    In France, this win is an incredible opportunity to transcend our heavy history, especially when you know the treatment of african players (s/o to Pogba).
     
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  6. joeyp363
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    Jul 15, 2018
    d--- France played their hearts out. Glad to see Croatia get their first EuroCup though
     
    Jul 1, 2022
  7. Alchemist34
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    Alchemist34 DO MY HEAD

    Jul 15, 2018
    I don’t think we’ll ever see Croatia in another World Cup final again. Or Euro for that matter
     
    Jul 1, 2022
  8. Pablo
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    Pablo Dragon Z-azou

    Jul 15, 2018
     
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  9. Fire Squad
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    Fire Squad Boss Don Biggavel

    Jul 15, 2018
    You do realize his Santos sides used to tour Europe and embarrassed many major clubs? Did you not see the broken teams that Sweden and France arrived with in 58' (which was predominantly European represented) idk where you read or came up with that? His era was just as hard to play in when illegal fouls were still allowed back then and that lumbering ball was harder to dribble/s---t with, the fact that he was such a magician with it speaks volumes why hes so revered.

    Tactics have always existed, it's only adjusted to the extra conditioning and rising growth in awareness towards nutrition. Santos was broke as h--- and needed those tours, where you probably heard those rumors is when they used to play African pick-up teams and other semi-pros where he racked up his still iffy claim of '1000' goals--that's what hurts his legacy to me.
     
    Jul 1, 2022
  10. Dread or Alive
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    Dread or Alive Kamikaze should've been released 3 years ago

    Jul 15, 2018
    And this is a refutation of my point is it? My point being that he played in a less competitive time, and your point being that he went to Europe and his team embarrassed everybody.


    Okay you brought up 2 teams un one year.
    The semi-finals of this world cup was Belgium-France and England-Croatia
    The last WC semi's were Germany-Brazil and Argentina-Netherlands
    And the WC before that was won by Spain. Meanwhile Chile has dominated the last few copa america's.

    And you are gonna tell me that Pele didn't play in a less competitive time. :rockyhmm:
     
    Jul 1, 2022
  11. Fire Squad
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    Fire Squad Boss Don Biggavel

    Jul 15, 2018
    Yes because you started it off with "players that weren't even professionals" which already established you are unaware of the level playing field of a time when Sweden had some of the best players in the world, England could have had the Busby Babes had they not died and the South American league that had some of the world finest players just as a sample size. The talent relative to now is still the same, you just need to brush up more to learn about how different football was set-up then.

    Like I mentioned above, it's always been the same competitiveness, especially considering South Americans arguably had more talent across their leagues than Europe did. Clubs like Boca, Penarol from Uruguay and the rest of the Brazilians used to embark on European tours to earn cash, the fact that European journalists at the time had no prior knowledge to the talent that was across the Atlantic only added to just how even it used to be! Because of the Bosman ruling and added TV Sponsorship, the warped footballing world of today made Europe look vastly superior and uneven, so yes Pele did play in an ultra-competitive time but he was just so outstanding that there was nothing anyone else could do about it. Not trying to undermine you btw, youre a kid thats eager to learn more so I'm just kicking knowledge :cool2:
     
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  12. Dread or Alive
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    Dread or Alive Kamikaze should've been released 3 years ago

    Jul 15, 2018
    Relative to now? dude the last 3 finals had 6 different teams.None of which being Brazil or Italy. The distribution of talent across the world due to the growth of club football and diversity due to scouting systems isn't debatable. More teams now have "superstars" than older iterations of the WC had teams. That's not a comparable amount of talent distribution. The CL could be won by around 10 teams from 5 different leagues with players from all over the world. Football is a bigger sport now than it was back then, and exponentially so. The size of the world cup is just proof of that, and this world cup in particular, being so exciting in every single game, shows that the growth is not just a dilution.


    So winning the brazillian league back then was as hard as winning the PL in the modern era is it? I'm just calling straight bs.
    Btw here's a quick fact, the starting 11 for france in the final came from 10 different clubs across 4 leagues. Sorry for not thinking that 60 years ago, football simply wasn't as scientifically engineered or tactically astute as it was now with football managers now being paid millions.
     
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  13. Fire Squad
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    Fire Squad Boss Don Biggavel

    Jul 16, 2018
    All of this still leads to my point, it's still the same competition with the same superstars all trying to compete; every team still had their superstars and tactical nous and now it's just a larger number (which I agree does make for a better spectacle since as you mentioned we had a tremendous world cup largely in part to growth across some nations like the former Yugoslavians, France, Portugal in particular boomed after the 1980s). Because football is so cyclical it's always going to benefit the teams that have had longer pedigree (this applies towards club & international), in the end it's always the same cast that shows up to these last 4 and even worse the Champions League which is a complete hegemony...at least these last 10 years idk how it'll be like post-Ronaldo & Messi?

    Fam, that Brazillian league & Libertadores was incredibly difficult to compete in with all the shape-shifting tactical innovation and sheer talent that Brazil was pumping out at the time, a comprehensive look at the old Intercontinental Cup showed that South American Leagues were very much on a even-playing field. The one thing that I won't debate is the incredible way Ligue 1 has eclipsed all the other leagues in producing players, most of this France team came from the ghettos of Paris that all had indoor football fields right outside their project buildings like how the US' inner-city communities have always produced top-class Basketball players because of the availability of recreational facilities. Actually that's really been the trend on the international level; the league that produces the best wins it
     
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  14. eddie313
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    eddie313 MUSIC TO BE MURDERED BY

    Jul 16, 2018
    Does anyone know if France is racist?
     
    Jul 1, 2022
  15. Dread or Alive
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    Dread or Alive Kamikaze should've been released 3 years ago

    Jul 16, 2018
    Spain then Germany, now France with the rise of PSG looming.


    I think Madrid and Barca continue to be the biggest non English teams in world football. Varane and Umtiti are pretty much Symbolic of that. But in terms of individual talents, i'm not quite jumping into the Mbappe wagon yet. 20 year old cr7 and 20 year old Messi weren't as productive, but holy s--- Ronaldo looked so polished with his skills (back when cr7 could dribble LUL) and Messi was.....Messi.



    Next standout player should be Mbappe but i'm not really buying it personally. I think there are young players that have better technique than he does (Asensio and Ousmane from the two clubs i watch the most) but his numbers are better than both combined at this point and he's an athletic freak of nature.
     
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  16. Dread or Alive
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    Dread or Alive Kamikaze should've been released 3 years ago

    Jul 16, 2018
    Ronaldo and Messi have become s--- haven't they? @Fire Squad ? d--- just watching that video lol :lawd:

    edit: nvm they both got better
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
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  17. Fire Squad
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    Fire Squad Boss Don Biggavel

    Jul 16, 2018
    The scary thing about Mbappe is his decision making at this age, he has an elite understanding of team structure and his relation to where he should be positioned. His technique is already excellent, he can be even more brutal as he works on his game...granted no one was anywhere as freakishly precocious as R9 was from 95-98 as far as gifted young players go--or as I thought Wayne Rooney was for awhile :laff:

    There will never be another comparison to the inhuman stats and footballing excellence CR7 & Messi (really Real & Barca as a whole) gave us this past 14 years. They were extremely fortunate no debilitating injury crippled their development besides CR's knees post-2014 & Messi's repeatedly hacked ankles. The fact they've evolved into 3 different players throughout their careers still blows my mind. La Liga's scouting is the best thing they have going for them, don't know how long it will be since the Premier League is just swimming in cash right now, players gotta eat too.
     
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  18. Dread or Alive
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    Dread or Alive Kamikaze should've been released 3 years ago

    Jul 16, 2018
    It's not bad i just think Asensio's shooting and Ousmane's dribbling are better than his, but Mbappe is a waay more complete player than both of them are.


    The pulling power of Madrid and Barca are still bigger than any one EPL club though.
     
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  19. Fire Squad
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    Fire Squad Boss Don Biggavel

    Jul 16, 2018
    For our sake I hope so lol, it's like who would you rather play for Valverde & Lope or Pep & Klopp?

    We took a huge hit this summer with both Zizou & CR gone plus the unenviable expectations of living up to 3 straight UCLs, It looks like we're going into a transition period and some of the younger core (Isco, Asensio, Kova and those Brazilian kids we're stockpiling on) will need to learn to assume more responsibility and generate more scoring opportunities (creation & shooting). I like Atletico & Barca's chances (Iniesta gone is an equally huge hole to fill) a lot more tbh, let's resume this convo around transfer deadline day when the squads begin to take shape.
     
    Jul 1, 2022
  20. Alchemist34
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    Alchemist34 DO MY HEAD

    Jul 16, 2018
    Football was definitely less "developed" during Pele's time. You only have to watch the matches back then compared to now. That's not to say Pele isn't one of the greatest though. That's why he used to score so much. I'm sure if Ronaldo and Messi played back then they'd score silly amounts of goals too. But if you brought Pele to the present time, I don't think he'd stand out too much from the rest of the current day superstars or even be considered one of the best

    I agree that europe is able to produce better players and teams now. The amount of funding and training in european football is just on a whole different level. I mean with Brazil specifically football is ingrained in their culture from birth and it always has been. Every kid in Brazil grows up playing even in dirt poor neighbourhoods. There's nothing else to do there. They don't rely on expensive training and coaching from a young age. Naturally this sort of environment will produce a steady flow of football geniuses like all the famous Brazilian players we know. And you can tell by the Brazilian style of playing that their skills are rooted in their culture and street football. And of course when you take these guys and train them in europe they become unstoppable. Training alone isn't all it's about but when you get guys naturally extremely talented people like Ronaldo and fund their training with unlimited money you'll have a f---ing machine.

    As time goes on though with football in europe being a multi billion dollar business it will be increasingly more difficult for south american teams to win the world cup. Like germany and spain don't have these Ronaldo-Messi-esque superstars and they won the last two. Same goes for France and Croatia. I wouldn't really classify Mbappe as a freightrain monster like Ronaldo. Not yet anyway but he's usually more involved with the whole team
     
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