Nov 6, 2015 We've all heard it before..."Rapper X was great, but he hasn't put out a good album in X years" or "Rapper X had a good start to his career but fell off" etc etc. Basically, we tend to say that no matter what an artist has accomplished when it comes to acclaim, a drought of many years with bad albums leaves a damper on their career. I, myself, do not necessarily agree with this...why is rapper X any less deserving of being a GOAT if he had previously put out some of my favorite albums? But this ideology does interest me. Let's use a good example that is commonly discussed: Jay Z. I believe that, to the general hip hop community, Jay Z is believed to have put out three tremendous albums...and then went 10 or so years putting out mainly mediocre projects...And people repeatedly refer to Jay this as a negative aspect of his overall legacy "Jay Z isn't top 5, he hasn't put out a great project in years!" "Jay z has been on auto pilot for awhile...he isn't in the GOAT discussion anymore". "anymore" I ponder this thought. How can someone not be in the GOAT discussion anymore, in the hip hop industry? He put out three great albums that some artists will never touch...so why does sub-par material really bring down his legacy? If Jay really retired in '03...would he truly be higher on the totem pole than he would be with 15 more years of good tracks and listening material? Think about it...Hip hop is not like say, sports. If my favorite football player plays awful the second half of his career, it's just that-- he has played awful. I can't repeatedly replay my favorite players best seasons in my mind and enjoy it or justify that to anyone. It doesn't mean anything. But we can with music. Think of it like this....Let's say Biggie Smalls, who is one of the most renowned rappers of all time, lived to rap for another 15 years. Loved for his first two albums as it is...Biggie becomes a sellout and released 4 bad projects to end his career. Do I now come to a conclusion that BIG isn't one of the greatest of all time anymore? Regardless of these bad albums, he still made two of my favorite. So what gives? When you put it this way, in the history of rap, dying is a godsend...you don't have the opportunity to lower your legacy with an album not as good as your last one... And on top of this, even if a rapper is putting out sub part stuff for a decade after their prime, you can almost always count on a couple of gems here or there every album or so-- even with generally hated (on SX80) artists such as Eminem (Deja Vu, Going Through Changes). And so these people are still adding to their catalog of GOAT material, and we still bag on them along the way. What is your opinion? Do years of mediocrity and sub-par projects from a rapper lower your overall opinion of them, and why?
Nov 6, 2015 Yeah, they are in my top 5 too. A lot of people want to take them out of the discussion because Eminem had drug issues and has changed to an unlikeable style, while Jay Z hasn't sounded hungry in years...to me, this doesn't change the fact that they both put out 3 tremendous albums.
Nov 6, 2015 Eminem continues to fall in status as he continues to release s--- music. If anyone else thinks otherwise they are crazy.
Nov 6, 2015 Why don't you address the topic of the thread in a respectable and thoughtful manner instead of blatantly putting down an opposing opinion? And this is not an Eminem thread, either.
Nov 6, 2015 It does if I'm rating their career/discography. If they've put out more average albums than stellar ones then I'd view them as a 'flash-in-the-pan' type of artist who was able to catch lightning in a bottle once or twice only. Greatest of all time discussions has to factor in both highs and lows. We can't just discount the lows. If that were the case then there'd be a lot of one-album wonders up in the discussion for GOAT-ness.
Nov 6, 2015 I'll flip the question, if an artist puts out one great album and then proceeds to s--- for the rest of his career, is it okay to rank him among the best? Consistency is key and I don't necessarily agree with your Jay-Z notion. Jay has put out some sub par albums but he's been quite consistent throughout his career.
Nov 6, 2015 For the record I didn't necessarily say I agree with the Jay Z notion, I was just stating a popular opinion. Good reasoning btw
Nov 7, 2015 there's no rapper with a flawless catalog. Cool J and KRS One are still considered legends even though the latter half of their careers were marred by some abysmal releases. It really depends on the rapper in question.
Nov 7, 2015 jay z has put out only 3 tremendous projects and the rest are mediocre? UM What about vol1,2,3 American gangster?
Nov 7, 2015 And personally, I feel you gotta have at least 2 classics under your belt to be considered A top 10 contender. Like snoop's got one classic:Doggystyle but his other projects have been pretty bad/mediocre. Is he considered one of the GOATS?
Nov 7, 2015 Very excellent question, personally I've always thought as long as they contributed to the industry in a major way and delivered timeless material then I don't think it should hamper their status as legendary acts. I've been trapped in nostalgia lately in which I've had Lil Wayne & T.I on repeat, these guys had their careers decline in recent years but because of what they were able to create circa 03-08 I give zero f---s about whether those slips like Rebirth/No Mercy really damaged their legacies.
Nov 7, 2015 I think that for an artist to be legendary they should have had a consecutive run of at least three great albums. If the following albums are significantly lower in quality then it probably won't hinder their legendary/GOAT status. However, I believe that it is important for an artist that started off with a good carer but who has later released several poor releases to reinvent themselves in a positive way by releasing another undeniably great album. This should then at least put them back in the discussion in terms of being a GOAT/legend. Of course there are other factors that go towards GOAT legacies such as overall impact on the game; longevity; long-term popularity etc. that I think are important too.
Nov 7, 2015 3 popular top 5 rappers have put out bad albums before (Nas, Jay-Z & Eminem), it hasn't really hurt them. However, Snoop Dogg though.. Post Death-Row he's only been able to put out hit singles.
Nov 7, 2015 Jay made more good (and even classic) albums than bad/mediocre ones. Overal a goat. Eminem made more average albums than great ones. But that doesn't change the fact that once he was one of the greatest. Just not anymore right now
Nov 7, 2015 This is exactly what I wanted to say after reading the OP. Nobody depreciates Jay's input in evolving hip hop music, but it doesn't change the fact he's musically irrevelent in 2015. I dont know a mentally stable person who would consider Jay to be a 'hot' rapper in 2013-15. In other words, a few bad albums doesn't hurt rapper's legacy, but it influences on a rapper's position in a particular period of time.
Nov 7, 2015 Good answers guys. I just want to restate that I myself don't agree with what I said in OP about Jay Z, I was just stating a popular notion. He's in my personal top 5 and always has been.
