Serious El Paso Mass Shooting, 20+ dead

Started by Enigma, Aug 3, 2019, in Life Add to Reading List

  1. Michael Myers
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    Michael Myers

    The Boogeyman Is Coming

    Aug 6, 2019
    Ban them is better

    Like.. I see reports of rappers (example) facing charges for '''illegal' gun possession. Like, what? Should be facing charges for having a gun... because(!) its illegal.. lol.

    Gun possession is illegal here except when u are at a shooting club or have a job that requires one. I really don't get why people want to own one but at the sime time I realize life in US is not the same as here.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
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  2. joeyp363
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    Aug 7, 2019
    I would gladly give up my guns for some form of reciprocation, ie money, if it meant everyone
    Cuz this is #Murica.
     
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  3. Enigma
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    Enigma

    Civil liberties > Police safety

    Aug 7, 2019


    “But-but-but it’s not about politics!!!”
     
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  4. Michael Myers
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    Michael Myers

    The Boogeyman Is Coming

    Aug 7, 2019
    I know not everyone is gun hungry but sadly this is how I generally see most americans lol
     
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  5. Rodamon
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    Aug 7, 2019
    f--king disgrace. should be the one to get shot
     
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  6. Michael Myers
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    Michael Myers

    The Boogeyman Is Coming

    Aug 7, 2019
    ^ see thats what I meant
     
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  7. dna hits
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    Aug 7, 2019
    The thing in America is (I know you’ll find this hard to believe, but it’s the truth) with our gun right being protected by the constitution, the states would be in total chaos if it came to the government demanding everyone’s guns. My one friend who’s older than me has like a little over 30 guns, a ammo reloader, but he does shoot in competition events so he sort of has a good reason. Also, gun collecting is like his hobby. Over 57% of Americans are pro guns from most recent polls. Trying to force Americans guns out of innocent citizens hands could honestly lead to a civil war. It’s that serious here in America, along with all the extreme gun pro people who wear NRA hats and back them fully. Our founding fathers made our gun protection right, from a corrupt government trying to take control of all Americans. Look how big the Nazis grew, after Hitler made all the citizens give up their guns. I understand banning guns works in some other countries, but it never will in the USA. That’s why I say mental health should be a primary focus.

    And hunting is a big profit for states and the game commission. Parts in Colorado and Montana could possibly ruin a lot of their economy with banning guns. I’d be fine with making AK-47s illegal, as long as you could get some sort of professional license to obtain one. You almost need a gun in the states tbh. Too many robberies happening. Home invasions. Gang violence still on the rise. Innocent people should still have the right to own guns. Plus we’re so connected with the Mexican cartels, they’re already selling thousands of guns a month. They would be happy with a gun ban to increase their profits.
     
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  8. MichaelsMad
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    Aug 8, 2019
    I hope everyone reads this, itll be long but I will make several points and touch on a few topics, just read through to see them all

    When you see reports of a rapper facing those charges its bc some of them have felonies. You can't have a felony and own a fire arm.

    I see alot of talk of "no country has an obsession with fire arms like America, if we have a shooting we shut that shit down, America needs to ban them"
    Well...getting the obvious out of the way, we are not other countries. Think back to why our 2nd amendment was created. Other countries do not have our ideology of possessing guns because 1. Many have never been allowed to. And 2. Some of those countries historically were the tyrannical governments/ countries who controlled everyone/thing.

    Also, historically when we are attacked it is a single bombing event. As the Japanese stated when asked why they did not continue the assault after pearl harbor, since they would not of met military resistance until the Mississippi river "Invading America would be futile, because there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." Nobody wants to have to multi task surveying our land, learning the roads, backroads, highways and over all landscape while also worrying what civilians will shoot at them. That's a large task and something to consider. Ever notice how easy it would be for someone to invade other countries? That's why wars are never fought on our soil. Politics behind the wars behind, when America is involved in war the American citizens do not feel it bc it's never occurring on American soil.

    Now here's my bone to pick with "buzz words" the media and alot of people proposing gun bans aggravate me because they use phrases, and terminology so loosely, and most cannot tell you anything about any of the firearms being discussed.

    "Mass shooting" is used VERY loosely. Was el Paso a mass shooting? Absolutely. But websites and groups like "moms taking action" or "everytown against gun violence" all have calendars on their websites you can click on them and they will tell you the details of a "mass shooting" some of these dates are one or 2 ppl being killed and one was "two people being wounded" that's not a mass shooting....but a funny thing is I also looked up homocides in Chicago for those EXACT same dates. Some of which listed 20 plus murders on those same days. But those sites didnt discuss that. Why? Bc Chicago is a "gun free zone"
    "Ar 15 military style weapon" I have several ar-15s they are not "military" style. The military uses an M-4. Which can be fired semi automatic or fully automatic. Semi automatic means one round fired per trigger pull....same as a hand gun. Now Bernie Sanders says "these assault weapons need to be banned bc they're designed to kill ppl rapidly" really? Bc its semi automatic. One trigger pull means one round fired. It fires at the same rate my 1911 hand gun will.... all hunting rifles can also fire the same round as an AR 15 classic hunting rifles can fire a 762.. a 556 or a 223 round. So, do people have an issue with the round, the magazine capacity, or the "look" of it. Like the other headline stated "ak 47 style!!!" OHHHH you mean the AKM which is also only fired in semi automatic.

    You cannot go to a gun store and buy a fully automatic machine gun. There are less than 600 k of those in America right now and to be in the discussion of purchasing one of those "used....bc they do not manufacture them for public purchase anymore" you have to go through a outlandish FBI check, finger prints, 200 dollar app and that's just to get in the convo. And you also had to be military, law enforcement, gun store owner, range operator etc to file it. Couldnt be a Joe blow and if you did you're losing 200 bucks and getting put on that FBI watch list.

    That being said they need to stop being available to purchase at pawn shops....and 3rd party dealers. Shady shit goes on there. It needs to be through legit gun stores. ALSO the banning thing is incredibly redundant bc anytime criminal has gotten their hands on full autos and outlandish weaponry it has came from a black market source etc and they are not registered, nor do they have serial numbers on them. Another point is does your country have street gangs to the extent of America? I dont even call them street gangs bc they have levels and are legit criminal organizations. Theres dangerous ppl world wide but do you walk past blocks and corners that are "owned" by gangs where you live?

    I'm all for eliminating the 3rd party sales. I'll never purchase a firearm used nor will I ever sell any of mine. I have a concealed carry license and it goes through a regular back ground check monthly. Everything I have is registered in my name with the serial number. Point being places like Chicago and cali, NYC have some of the strictest gun laws around, and felons get weapons that "arent in the system" they're not purchased from a store etc. It will always be available to people that want them. And before you say " WELL IT WAS WHITE BOIS DOING THIS MASS SHOOTING NOT A GANGSTER" yes....but you're also only saying that bc these are the ones that make the news. Last week 40 plus were killed in Chicago, you dont hear about it... the Dayton shooter? Was a registered Democrat, member of antifa. Was in protest of the KKK in Dayton and regularly praised socialism. But you dont see that on the news bc it doesnt fit their agenda. ALSO someone in southern cali just stabbed 6 people back to back. If 2 or ppl being wounded is a mass shooting that's a mass stabbing

    Another thing I see people say is "well it's crazy white ppl doing these mass shootings not the immigrants" so weve already established that the term mass shooting is used loosely so I will ask why is nobody bringing up Juan Manuel Flores who killed a cop and injured another in a chase that ended in shoot out when he stopped. Or Gustavo Perez Arriaga, or Martinez-Guzman who killed an elderly couple, 2 females, and had 36 counts of burglary attached to him. Now if 2 people getting wounded equates to a mass shooting so does an elderly couple and 2 women, and 4 officers. I think that fits under the qualifications for mass shooting.

    My main point is the media will play the things that push the majorities opinion, and block the things the cancel it out. And any argument used against the subject has an equal and factual rebuttal to disprove it.
     
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  9. Enigma
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    Enigma

    Civil liberties > Police safety

    Aug 8, 2019
    Eh.... the U.S. having the most powerful military in the world & nukes has a lot more to do with why any given country wouldn’t attack the U.S. homeland. Some civilians with AR-15s would be the least of their worries.

    Or because inner city violence which is often gang violence is more understandable. People can understand why there is gang violence: poverty, socioeconomic factors, family ties, drugs etc. Places like Chicago have had a gang violence problem for decades if not a century. You can go back to the days of Al Capone & various mafias fighting for power in the 20s/30s/40s. Mass shootings is a relatively new phenomenon that became much more evident at the beginning of the 21st century. People can’t wrap their minds around why someone would, out of no where, go shoot up a shopping mall. That’s why it becomes so sensationalized: we can’t fully comprehend it. It’s the unknown that always scares people.

    P.S. roughly half of the guns found on crime scenes in Chicago come from outside the city/neighboring states with more lax gun laws.

    The fact that you know about these cases tells us that the media did its job & informed you of them. No one is arguing there arent immigrants who commit crime. All types of people commit crimes. Mass shooters do tend to be white males though. Also, immigrants commit crime at a LOWER rate than natural born citizens. These are just facts.
     
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  10. Michael Myers
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    Michael Myers

    The Boogeyman Is Coming

    Aug 8, 2019
    The one part I agree on is that a criminal is a criminal , a shooter is a shooter and people (especially americans) are f--king obsessed with 'he's white' or 'he's black'. When an innocent person gets hurt for no reason the one who did it is a scumbag in my book -ignoring exceptions-.. whether the victim is white , black, a cop, a dentist, gay or straight.
     
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  11. MichaelsMad
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    Aug 9, 2019
    Well I quoted the Japanese as to why they didnt follow up their attack....and you also contradicted my post with the same logic I was going against. The media did not do its job to inform me fox, CNN and MSNBC did not post those. It all had to be googled for local Chicago news. When we say "media" in the US we go mean the broadcasting networks. So when those websites listed all these "mass shootings" and some were just 2 people being wounded I decided to googled Chicago homocides for those same DATES. If you read my first post you would know I already explained that. Me having to Google it does not mean the media is informing me. It's me calling these websites on their bullshyt and looking up info for myself.

    And stating it's understandable for criminals to have these murder rates lol....you're saying its expected for gangs to have the weapons, even though it's illegal we expect it. You're just proving my point bro, banning or making them illegal doesnt work! Lol I also said how they need to eliminate 3rd party selling.

    Mass shooting isnt really a new phenomenon. The difference is news and media is widespread. Everything is documented and nothing is lost in the system. It's not like the 50 60s and 70s when serial killing was possible to get away with and bodies and names just vanished. We just know about everything now.

    And I'm guessing you're not from America so back to your "few civilians with ar 15s would be the least of their worry" you're also proving my point as to an AR is not some outlandish weapon. It's a semi automatic (one trigger pull equal one round being fired) not a fully automatic rifle that militaries use. BUT if you've been to America or know about America youd realize how complex our land is (I stated this in my previous post but I'll say it again) no country wants to have to attempt to learn our land, layout, maps, roads, back roads, highways, buisness etc while worrying if civilians are going to shoot at them. Civilian might not be military trained but it's a risk they dont wanna take. That's why whenever we invade a country or other countries get invaded it's done seamlessly bc they only have to worry about military resistance bc the local ppl have no means to protect themselves.

    And I know guns in Chicago come from neighboring cities....you're again proving my point that ppl will get ahold of them lol.

    And like I said "mass shooting" what's the requirement for that. Bc 2 of those sites I spoke of have 2 ppl being wounded as a mass shooting. That is not a mass shooting. And I agree with America being obsessed over white black whatever its pathetic. They say "oh well if its white hes mentally Ill, if hes middle eastern they're a terrorist if hes black hes a thug" whose telling you these things?? The MEDIA the news anchors and hosts...they're the ones creating buzzwords, pushing agendas, causing biases and yet ppl still listen to what they say as if its gospel lol. They pick and choose what they tell you.

    And I also was not saying immigrants cause all these crimes etc I was just trying to show that every argument made towards guns and these shootings can be applied to every aspect of someone else's arguments. I really don't feel like you read what I said at all lol. I do not think it's a race problem, an immigration problem etc. I'm just saying whatever logic you're using against the topic can also be applied to rebuttal.
     
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  12. MichaelsMad
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    Aug 9, 2019
    Yup! Has nothing to do with race, it's a PEOPLE THING. Ppl apply stereotypes to everything and it pisses me off. Male, female, and race stereotypes are just tha . Stereotypes. Any person of any gender can do anything, it's a personal thing not a race or gender thing. All ppl are capable of evil
     
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  13. MichaelsMad
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    Aug 9, 2019
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...sted-springfield-store-police-say/1961573001/

    This wasnt on CNN or MSNBC either. Bc it shows someone with a gun did an amazing thing.
     
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  14. MichaelsMad
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    Aug 9, 2019
    And I agree with Neil degrase Tyson's tweet also. Situations like these evoke alot of emotion in people. But in the same 48 hours we lose way more people to the flu, medical error. Car crashes. Drunk driving for christ sake. But ppl take that as being insensitive. I've always been coldly rational. Nobody gets upset or talks about the other causes of murder and death
     
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  15. MichaelsMad
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    Aug 9, 2019
    Well I would hope so considering there should be SUBSTANTIAL amount of more natural born citizens than undocumented immigrants lol
     
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  16. reservoirGod
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    reservoirGod

    reckless adventurer.

    Aug 9, 2019
    Do you know whatever a "rate" is? You know... like a ratio?
     
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  17. joeyp363
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    Aug 9, 2019
    Yes, lots of people die from other causes everyday. But let’s look at what you are comparing it to.

    The flu? Lots of people die from the flu, but most are the elderly and newborns. Guess what else we have... Flu vaccines every year.

    Car crashes? We have seatbelts that in some places is illegal not to wear it.

    Drunk Driving? Highly illegal, and where I’m from it’s a felon with drivers license revoked/jail time, etc.

    Death due to guns? We don’t have proper restrictions. Hmmm weird.

    I do agree with you that we react emotionally to these things, but isn’t that natural human behavior? The problem is gun related deaths are preventable. It doesn’t matter if 1 person dies or thousands, they are preventable.
     
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  18. Michael Myers
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    Michael Myers

    The Boogeyman Is Coming

    Aug 9, 2019
    Weird comparison man
     
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  19. Big Cuntry
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    Big Cuntry

    aliases: mike tyson, swervo, poohdini, joeyp363

    Aug 9, 2019
    people don't take it as insensitive, they take it as being logically unsound and an overall stupid argument. The flu is a natural virus. There's no national flu association advocating for flu virus rights. No one is advocating for drunk driving and people are constantly upset about deaths that result from it. Cars are man-made vehicles made for transportation. Over the past 100 years we've been working to make cars as safe as possible. Yes, you can kill someone with a car, but you can kill someone with a hammer or a shard of glass or a PS4 or millions of other inanimate objects. The difference is that guns are man-made weapons that are made with the explicit purpose of killing efficiently.

    We're constantly working to improve cars, vaccines, overall medical knowledge so deaths resulting from these things get lower and lower. We're not doing shit about guns.

    also neil degrase tyson is a loser
     
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  20. Worm
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    Worm

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    Aug 9, 2019
    You know what stops a bad guy with the flu? A good guy with the flu and some nyquil and rest. f--king liberals trying to take everything away
     
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