May 16, 2021

whats complex is how to deal with it, but what is simple is that Israel should not exist as it is and its genocide needs to be stopped as soon as possible. If you doubt about that you need to go f--- yourself.

 

May 16, 2021

well I’m glad you’re making that distinction & emphasizing Israel shouldn’t exist “as it is” lol but I don’t think others are making that same distinction. We don’t disagree if that’s truly your position.

 

May 16, 2021

wait hold on was i being accused of backing israel too aggressively lol

 

May 16, 2021

yes lol earlier on by you know who.

 

May 17, 2021

the issue here is that they plant a seed and now it grew too much to cut down. How can you kick me out, it is my home! they will say. Ideally, israelites should go back to their motherlands, either russia, poland, spain whatever. Its very f----- up really. Its like now gypsies from all around the world wanted a fake country in an Indian territory, since they supposedly come from there.

Another option is abolish Israel as a country, only Palestine exists and Israelites keep living there or whatever, i am not a politician. But being neutral on this is a no no, i am sorry. I dont want to be part of a generation who remaint neutral"to not bother" while they massacred a whole country.

 

May 17, 2021

Jesus Christ so many hitler apologists coming out the wood works…

 

May 17, 2021

If the current world's biggest superpower's economic connection to Israel is severed, it will suffer a pretty hefty blow. It is a gigantic step of progress of a potential domino effect into stopping further aid of their nationalist oppression (not just from America.) You underestimate how intertwined geopolitics is on an economic scale where US interests are concerned.

This shows yet another misunderstanding. Anti-Imperialism by default does not support colonialism -- what is Israel? A colony. So of course people of this ideological/moral stance will take the side of Israel abolition...

Nothing is being strawmanned here, your inaction/neutrality stance is by default pro-Israel as they are the perpetrators.

 

May 17, 2021

Lmfao, there's s--- tkns of people saying this, they aren't apologists they just make the distinction "Israel are joos and hitlah killed a lot of em, we need a new one now!"
They dont care about politics or the nazi regime, stop reading into it so much and keep parroting how USA should continue to fund their weapons even though Italian ports blocking arm imports to Israel are being praised worldwide

 

May 17, 2021

 

May 17, 2021

“potential.” That’s the key word there. You can’t say that for certain. Sure, it would be a massive blow to Israel but you’re foolish if you don’t think China or Russia would be salivating at the opportunity to fill that void. I don’t have to explain to you how vast/profitable the military industrial complex can be. Israel can get funds from elsewhere. There’s not going be any shortage of rockets/bullets for them to s---t if that’s what you’re hoping for.

You conveniently left out “anti-interventionist.” The only way Israel is being abolished is a full fledge invasion, overthrow & occupation of the country. I don’t know how leftists can reconcile that with their goal of Israel abolition.

 

May 17, 2021

Enigmas argument is literally nah I'm fine if we keep funding genocidal regimes because if we stopped China and Russia would step in

 

May 17, 2021

I bet all of Palestine holds the same views, thankful Israel is being funded by America, the greatest nation on earth Instead of evil China and russia

 

May 17, 2021

“Potential” is put there because of course it isn’t certain as it hasn’t happened yet, doesn’t mean historical context doesn’t prove that it **most likely** will.

Stop isolating everything when it’s all intertwined, hyper-focusing on my verbiage does not prove any of the points you think you’re making.

China & Russia have denounced the actions of the IDF. China support the Palestinians, they have even donated COVID vaccines to them & sent medical workers to Palestine to support them during the pandemic under occupation. And before you start going all reactionary & showing me that they work with Israel on trade too, you need to understand that they’re historically against foreign intervention too & stick to neutrality.

So again, another hypothetical situation you’ve just made up in your mind to defend funding of genocide, keep going.

Another non-argument, focusing on wording because it slightly overlaps with your understanding of it. You’re yet again isolating the situation as “Israel is a state, if you’re anti-interventionist you therefore cannot touch it as that would be going against your political ideology” completely disregarding the historical context of Israel occupying stolen land. Anti-interventionists wouldn’t recognise Israel as a state in the first place.

Liberals are going to make me lose my mind.

 

May 17, 2021

Yeah I see China as a quiet threat. They commit their own atrocities and genocides and planet destruction whenever a world spectacle is occurring. They are snakes and far too sneaky to just fund Israel immediately after USA stopped.

The most concerning thing will be when China starts speaking out about s--- like this, while also genociding their own people lol

 

May 17, 2021

Lot of paragraphs in here but I think the gist is f--- Israel

 

May 17, 2021

Anyways, back to the topic.

The US has now blocked three international ceasefire attempts. This nation is complicit in the genocide against the Palestinians.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/17/no-us-action-after-third-unsc-meeting-on-israel-palestine

The latest round of inaction also comes as US President Joe Biden has given no signs of plans to step up public pressure on Israel, instead repeatedly stressing Israel’s right to defend itself.

Critics, including members of Biden’s party, have accused the administration of whitewashing Israeli strikes, which have killed at least 198 Palestinians in Gaza and wounded more than 1,000 others.

US ambassador to the United Nations, Linda Thomas-Greenfield, told the emergency meeting that the US was “working tirelessly through diplomatic channels” to stop the fighting.

“The United States has made clear that we are prepared to lend our support and good offices should the parties seek a ceasefire,” she said.

Still, no joint statement emerged from the council, despite negotiations lead by Norway, China and Tunisia.

The US, China, France, Russia and United Kingdom are all permanent members of the security council, giving them veto power over joint statements. China had previously called out the US as being the sole dissenting voice on the issue.

However, the US has shown little willingness to diverge from its support of Israel.

In a phone call with Netanyahu on Saturday, Biden focused on civilian deaths from Hamas rockets. A White House readout of the call made no mention of the US urging Israel to join in a ceasefire that countries in the Middle East were pushing

Twenty-five other Democratic US senators and two independents issued a separate, statement urging an immediate ceasefire.

“The devastation in Gaza is unconscionable. We must urge an immediate ceasefire. The killing of Palestinians and Israelis must end. We must also take a hard look at nearly $4 billion a year in military aid to Israel. It is illegal for US aid to support human rights violations,” - Bernie Sanders

 

May 17, 2021

You put “potential” there because if what you’re saying did happen (U.S. stops military aid to Israel) your desired outcome (Israel stops being an apartheid state) isn’t guaranteed. You keep trying to frame this as me being pro military aid for Israel. I’m not lol. If stopping military aid to Israel leads to some sort of cease fire, peace negotiations, I’m all for it. I just want to ensure there is something to gain from actually doing that. I don’t want the U.S. to lose all leverage/influence on the situation just so we can pat ourselves on the back & say we did a good thing.

China & Russia are opportunists just like the United States or any other western country. If the relationship between the U.S.-Israel was fractured, they would try to step in. China is committing genocide in their country as we speak, you think they actually give a f--- about the Palestinians? Come on dude. Don’t be so naive.

Bruh you’re telling me that I’m focusing too much on wording when this is the biggest semantics argument I’ve ever read lmao. Invading/Occupying Israel wouldn’t be interventionism because you don’t recognize Israel as a legitimate state. So like who’s doing the invasion & occupying? Hamas? Would love to hear how this totally reasonable plan would work out.

Def not what I said but this is like your 4th time trying to get my attention in this thread so here it is!

 

May 17, 2021

But what if the entire influence is leading to innocent people dying?

 

May 18, 2021

this is exactly what I was trying to get at earlier. Some people want the U.S. to cut military aid from Israel & don’t care if it resolves the conflict or not. They just want to be able to pat themselves on the back. I do care. I think it’s in the U.S.‘s invested interest to engage in negotiations & try to work out a ceasefire/start up peace negotiations. If that means we have to continue to provide military aid to Israel to achieve that goal, so be it.