Aug 7, 2020

It's not as simple as that, of course. I don't think he specifically said "I am going to make a modern day k--- You and a modern day 97 Bonnie and Clyde". But it absolutely was a pivot back to wacky humor and shock value, and away from the increasingly personal and introspective nature his music had taken with MMLP, TES, and some of Encore. It's a different beast because of the weird accents and serial killer tunnel vision, definitely, but that doesn't mean it's original. I would dispute the idea that this is some laudable artistic vision. The album is a mess!

only really memorable songs are Deja Vu and My Mom. Hello is solid too and I understand the argument for Beautiful. Other from those, is there anything that actually works?

 

Aug 7, 2020

Im f---ing dying Lmao

 

Aug 7, 2020

im having a relapse slaps 3am slaps buffalo bill slaps swa and ssad slaps bagipipes from bagdad slaps most people who listen say only beautiful and deja vu i dont get it maybe im just in love with the beats every beat bangs and no relapse hook is bad unlike with mmlp2 revival recovery. step dad chrous hits diffrent on mute

 

Aug 7, 2020

also btw unrelated but f--- shady xv every beat is s--- every flow is s--- completely trash if you listen to it you aint rap fans

 

Aug 7, 2020

I think we may just have a fundamental diff interpretation here. I think he camouflages the introspection in that tunnel vision shock value frequently. So, yeah, put the straightforward serious songs in their own pocket - Deja Vu, etc. Elsewhere, he's swallowing klonopin on "3am," passing out at a Ramada Inn. (other moments: searching his couch pillows for a stray pill, getting shitfaced with Mariah lol) There's little moments like that throughout the album where I think it's yes, a goofy serial killer narrative but it's also doubling as this feverscape from a knowingly washed person who is aware how pathetic he was during his addiction. So it's like the whole album is Em in that coma he wakes up from on Deja Vu, but reality is fleetingly sprinkled in. Like this is a concept album that acts as an extension of the 12 steps, recovering addict coming to terms or whatever. Not trying to say this is brilliant or works 100 percent of the time, but I think it's deliberate and kind of inspired in that sense.

Do I listen to something like Insane, ever? No. (Do I have my stan hat on? eh kinda!! :p ) But I'll take this version of personal, which reconciles all the mean spiritedness and nastiness of his peaks as a celebrity and addict through a silly serial killer conceit, over like, the generic and just kind of boring projects that follow . those feel truly impersonal , even if some of them pantomime introspection, overtly.

 

Aug 7, 2020

Perfect! My sentiments exactly!

 

Aug 7, 2020

That's a stretch though. People like different things and that's cool. It ain't for me but to say they aren't rap fans is a bit far.

 

Aug 7, 2020

Now relisten to the rest of the album. Its actually dope

 

Aug 7, 2020

yeah, I mean, you're right - we're rapidly approaching "agree to disagree" territory here. Because on one hand, yes, I understand what you're saying on two fronts: a) Relapse's sheer batshit craziness can be viewed as sort of an asset, because it's never boring, and b) that's a nice contrast to his later work, which lacks personality and too often mistakes serious subject matter with depth. We're in agreement there. But at the end of the day, as many words as we've poured into it over the years, the bottom line for me is that Relapse just doesn't have many good songs. So while I understand that it's intriguing just how unhinged this record is, to me it's just another example of Eminem's poor choices and abysmal quality control

and, btw, I just don't align with your take on the album's concept. Not that you're misreading it - I do think that Marshall is being deliberate in his choices, and the parallels to his drug addiction aren't accidental. I just think it's such a misguided way to broach the subject. Like, either talk about your addiction or don't; this goofy facade feels like a deflection, like he feels obligated to address the elephant in the room but bends over backwards to avoid *actually* reckoning with it (Deja Vu being the lone exception). It feels like the work of someone who wasn't ready to put out a new album, honestly

 

Aug 7, 2020

totally fair. Given the subject matter and the choices he makes it's (likely, almost certainly) designed to be divisive, or provocative. So kind of hard to rebut 'it doesn't have any good songs' besides like, what if it does? lol.

that said i disagree with this. things can be subtext. i dont see it as a deflection or an obligation when he raps "come with me to brighton let me relieve your tension" or "I just got my one year sobriety coin chip" ... it feels v playful and satirical.

but ya, ur right... it all culminates with the actual reckoning like u said, 'deja vu' being a kind of denouement or w/e. there's an arc, to me. whether it works or not, fair enough, but certainly feels by design and goes beyond the 'wow he lost his instincts!' boilerplate.

 

Aug 7, 2020

well, I'd like to see you engage with this part! Because beyond the psychoanalysis we've done and the quibbling about how much accent is too much accent, etc. etc., the quality of music is the real sticking point for me. Would be curious to see what you (and other Relapse defenders) see as the music worth coming back to, aside from the handful of obvious choices I cited earlier. Because it feels to me that people dig the singular space the album holds in Em's discography, as well as a number of its standalone characteristics (the production, the complexity of Em's rhyming, the thematic darkness) but rarely go to bat for, like, Underground

 

Aug 7, 2020

Great post

 

Aug 7, 2020

Just kidding, My Mom is better

 

Aug 7, 2020

hah, shifting the debate! I prefer things stand where it's a rhetorical tie + some people coming away seeing Relapse in a slightly diff light than before. Because, that's the real crux of this, I think: the debates over Eminem have calcified. We give @WPG a hard time bc he's a good sport - the heir to narsh's throne as forum mascot!!! - but i do appreciate he's constantly reevaluating and challenging himself on someone as overexposed as eminem

ANYway, I don't know, man. I think i've made my argument already on why a lot of the songs work and the quality of the music. You mention the sum of the parts - the production, the complexity of Em's rhyming, the thematic darkness - almost as an aside lol. Beats are great! It has playful, 'complex' rhyming, it's got a theme that works on a few levels. Not bad!!!!!

I don't like breaking down music as if it's the rubric from Dead Poets but like you said: Deja Vu, My Mom are memorable/good. Let's chock in Hello and Beautiful too. It's more than a few single obvious choices; that's a quarter of the album off the bat. No defense on We Made You or Insane. Underground is pretty lame, sure. Crack a Bottle. So discount me on those (I'm not saying this is Kid A lol, just pointing out theres more to this particular catalog than the accents) The rest? I think there's at least something - sonically, thematically - to appreciate. I agree w Travis Barker - 3am def has merit. Agree w Tyler the Creator on Same Song and Dance. The fantasies elsewhere are so weird and dumb it's kind of funny? Like purposefully funny, lighthearted and self effacing. Especially since, like, at this point, Eminem music is a genre onto itself. Anyhow I just think it's hard to divorce, say, the psychoanalysis when you're talking about a concept album from a recovering drug addict... engaging with that aspect is pretty important for a project like this

It's almost inconceivable to envision a project like this coming out today, or even in 2009 for that matter. It's got a sound and POV that is pretty singular. Not saying it should be on Em's Rock n Roll Hall of Fame plaque or anything but there's enough at work that makes it more than the misfire it was assigned for so long. deserves its reevaluation (or at least the debate going on )

 

Aug 7, 2020

Stepdad easily

 

Aug 7, 2020

This shocked me!

 

Aug 7, 2020

I understand it - still think it sounds horrible.

 

Aug 7, 2020

How to lose respect by doing this one weird trick!