Jul 28, 2015

I have some questions for everyone that comes into this thread. I ask that everyone take them seriously, hear me out, and contribute to this discussion to your best ability while being open and honest. You can also ask your own questions as long as it doesn't derail the conversation. This thread will require some critical thinking.

First question: Do you believe that humans have a conscience? In other words, do you believe that we, as humans, can sense what's right or wrong and know deep down in our hearts what is moral and immoral?

If your answer is no, explain why.
If you don't know if you believe or are conflicted, expand on your thoughts and how you feel.

If your answer is yes, give examples of what you feel are moral and immoral. Then answer this next question. Why is it so hard to be moral but easy to be immoral?



I am looking to expand this conversation beyond just the questions that were already asked. I geniunely want to know your true feelings and perspective so we can accomplish something positive in this thread. I appreciate you reading everything I had to say throughly and I hope we can gain knowledge and perspective from each other, use those two things in a good way, and bond with each other.


With that being said, discuss.

 

Jul 28, 2015

all levels of morality are contextually dependent. The element of "human" that is non-contextual and non-linguistic extends further than any conception of morality. Right and wrong can be reduced down to concepts, composed of varying forms of syntax and symbology, rendering "morality" virtually irrelevant in discussions regarding our nature.

Human nature is that which is the underlining common dominator which sets the standard by which we measure our petty differences. In reality, our differences are manifestations of a commonality that escapes linguistic comprehension.

To address your question, yes, every human has a conscious. We all have our own subjective definitions of what is right vs. what is wrong. But, as stated earlier, these definitions are only contextually relevant. These definitions only have relevance within the playground of language; language is not capable of capturing the totality of experience by any means whatsoever due to its fundamental nature.

 

Jul 28, 2015

Thought this was a Michael Jackson song appreciation thread..

I'm out

 

Jul 28, 2015

I agree with pretty much everything you said. I was thinking these past couple of days about something similar to what you are conveying. Everyone is born and develops beliefs of what is right and what is wrong as they grow older. The fact of the matter is that what is right or wrong is subjective and context-dependent. It may be wrong in someone's opinion to give to the poor because it enables them to live off of other people's things instead of working for their own. Another one's opinion may be that it's right to give to the poor because it is good to treat people how you want to be treated. The problem is that everyone's ideologies of what's right and wrong were influenced by various people and things either directly or indirectly. What do you think the commonality is specifically? if that makes any sense and if you are able to put it in words

 

Jul 28, 2015

hmm, well i think the underlining commonality is can be found if the individual travels to their deepest levels of self. If you travel to the frontiers of experience, you will arrive at the edge of your own perception. And as the you look over the edge of perception, you are only looking into the eyes of your real self. Its as if we are dealing with a paradox of self, a yin and yang dynamic between 'i' and 'other', which are two parts of one whole. Our society is f----- up because as a collective, we have grown addicted to suppressing the reality of our true self.

Imagine this, we are all pieces to a higher dimensional dynamic happening outside of what we call "life". We are all one higher dimensional being that is being expressed into 3 dimensionality. When this expression occurs, the one being is divided into a matrix of varying perspectives (animals, humans, inanimate objects, etc.). This may sound like a far off conclusion to arrive at, but evidence would suggest it is a viable assertion. Our senses of difference and the concept of "individual", the sense of duality itself, these are all linguistic illusions built into the grammar of how we think. We differentiate and label and categorize only for the convenience of symbolic/linguistic agendas; these make us feel more comfortable in the wake of the unfolding mystery we call "existence" or "life".

Our commonality is being itself. Our commonality is that we are all the one observer. We will always be the observer too as death itself is an illusion, just as life is.

 

Jul 28, 2015

I feel like things like "morality" are manifested by humanity. I don't think there's a Universal code of "wrong and right", only "action and reaction". The patterns that we see in life are our best bets to giving things names like "morality" which is why for instance if you do some f----- up s--- it's only logical that f----- up s--- happens to you back. It's just our design on the fabric of time and space. What the poster above me said was so on point and I personally feel like consciousness is a result of the Universe attempting to explore itself. It's also something that continues to evolve, the same way the Universe continues to expand. Look more into it, but there's the proven theory of how life literally becomes more complex as it goes on. This, I feel, applies to the Universe and everything that has any sort of sentience I feel like is just another "experiment" by the Universe. And even things that aren't sentient or may not appear to be so are just building blocks to future sentience.

It sounds woo-woo and could easily be dismissed as depressing existentialist jargon or maybe it can even be interpreted as esoteric hippie horse s---, but I feel like labeling things such as "wrong" "moral" and etc are just one perspective of the possible billions of them out there, and they're not concrete at all. I don't think there's such thing as morality at all, in the grand scheme of things.

Of course I'm conflicted with all of this because I hate just saying s--- like it's a fact. It's just my take on it.

 

Jul 28, 2015

That's exactly how I feel. The more I think about stuff like this general existential subject, the less I perceive things as facts. I'm starting to feel like the only thing I really know is that I don't know, if that makes sense. Kinda like the sentiments of that Socrates quote. It's almost like I drive myself mad thinking about it. But we're all humans who at some point wonder what their purpose is so it's normal, I guess. Or is that just what we have been taught and conditioned to perceive as normal?


@ganjakush56
I've thought about almost everything you said in your post before too. I just couldn't commit to completely believing it.There's too many possible conclusions for me to really commit to one possibility and believe it as fact. I guess I just have to live and learn and hopefully that will be in my best interests. I thank both of yall for extensively participating in this thread. I hope I helped both of you as much as yall helped me with your perspectives and insights. I'm sorry I don't have anymore questions to add to the discussion at this point. I feel like I need to take a break from thinking about too much because it doesn't seem healthy. But if yall have any questions or statements about anything you feel is relevant to this thread, feel free to post them and I will do my best to respond and keep it going. Peace

 

Jul 28, 2015

@GroovySlim
here's my sentiments on believing things. If something is true, it is not to be believed in. Lies are to be believed in. You are breathing; this is true. Whether or not you believe it, you are still breathing; it is out of your control. The core evidence of my statement lies in the truth that my being is inherently connected to the being of everything else, and vice versa. There is no separation of the two. Even my own free will is merely an abstraction of the cause and effect nature of time. We (animals, plants, humans, inanimate objects) are all fundamentally connected regardless of belief or fact. Even further, the entire dynamic and dichotomy between unity and difference is an illusion of language.

The truth of us being one being is even a presupposition to the very way in which we identify ourselves. If i ask you "who are you?", the logical response is "I'm me". If you ask me who i am, I will also say "I'm me". We are both "me" the secret of this is that the "me" is our true self. All of the secrets lie in the language, the literal coding to how we perceive reality. One must expose the grammar of thought, which is a loop of information exchange between 'i' and 'other' (yin and yang). This loop is the essential story of humanity; a grand conflict between 'ego' and 'self'.

But i hate stating things as fact too; i never believe anything that is composed of language because language itself is an abstraction of the real deal. Knowledge, the REAL knowledge, can only be gathered through experience . And the only real knowledge is that knowledge itself is an illusion as you discover that you are the very mystery that you are conflicted with. You are not supposed to know yourself; you are supposed to be yourself because that's all you can be. And as you be yourself, you begin to align your awareness with that of the higher dimensional being, and life becomes clear.

Just as the cup does what a cup does, you can only do what you can do. so you must do it.

 

Jul 28, 2015

all humans look for excuses for their behaviour

 

Jul 28, 2015

This may be true but if it is, it is probably natural for us to do. We are taught about good and bad behavior but bad behavior gets glamorized and shoved in your face almost everywhere in this country and many others . Almost all of the popular music, tv shows, commercials, movies, videogames, websites, radio shows, and many other things have stuff that is considered bad. From a baby, you are exposed to it. No matter what a guardian does, you won't escape it. Our behavior is directly and indirectly influenced by many things. This is why we look for excuses for our bad behavior because we've been used to seeing it and doing it for so long that bad behavior is almost second nature to us. Having good behavior consistently is largely avoided either consciously or subconsciously for the same reason. I feel like we were conditioned to act this way on purpose. But with that comes more questions. Whos doing it? Why? Are they actually doing it or are you just overthinking? This is why I have a hard time accepting things as true because there is alot of instances where there is equal evidence of something being true and false at the same time