Aug 28, 2020

Cops don’t get to murder someone just cuz they aren’t following what the cop says, it’s not comply or die.

There were 3 or 4 cops and his back was turned, they could’ve easily just brought him down to the ground or handcuffed him or ya know, done basically anything besides s---t him 7 times?

f---in disgusting how often people make excuses for these cops.

 

Aug 28, 2020

Although I agree with the underlying matter of what you are saying, unfortunately this is where you start to lose me. Much of what you begin to say here feels very contradictory to each other. First, you acknowledge that police pledge knowing they will be facing dangerous situations. So with this, you acknowledge that a dangerous situation could result in possible death for both parties similar to your comparison of war, no? Why in every situation do you believe it needs to be the police that face the burden of death? Although they sign on for it they have families just like everyone else and I wouldn't expect them to act any differently than me as a citizen if a crazed person appeared to threaten the life of mine or others around me. You feel they can't act based on instinct and, as you agreed, 6-8 months more training than you and I would have as they are trained police officers, right? How are you or I to judge that they didn't make a quick, rational or decisive decision? Sure we can Monday morning quarterback it but although thats the world we live in its unfair to say we would have handled it differently in that moment based on everything they encountered during that situation. You say it's irrelevant for you to say how you would handle it but if that's the case is your opinion not irrelevant with the lack of police training as well?

You also want to throw social workers or others into a potentially dangerous situation who would have even less training to make those decisions and put them in harms way when a criminal starts firing on police and or charging them with a knife. Again, not everyone can be de-escalated and some people are just plain bad. This is not the answer. Especially since its extremely unrealistic to volunteer this group of people to put themselves in danger (like police do) when it is not what they signed up for.

Do we need police? yes. But what needs to happen is hold those as you put it (and I would agree): anxious, nervous, trigger-happy or those that abuse their power accountable for their actions. We need to show that the community, departments and legal system do not back those people. They are shielded at all costs and honestly its our taxpayer dollars funding it. So that is another change I would/do back. They are given legal council that quite frankly citizens dont have because they put on the badge. And those officers that operate outside of department or legal policy should forfeit that privilege. I agree there has been a lack of attention and Kapernick should have been listened to. But now with cities on fire, and people listening, no one is stepping up or saying anything. I see no end in sight or no real goal or at least a universal goal.

 

Aug 28, 2020

Didn't hear anything about that, if they did bring him to the ground then they could've cuffed him..If not then they really s--- at their jobs..

if he had a knife in his car, you're saying that justifies shooting him 7 times in the back?? jesus christ...

anyways if he had just listened, he'd be fine right? oh yeah, like this guy?

 

Aug 28, 2020

This is where I WHOLE HEARTEDLY disagree. This equivocation of police & civilian. As you said, police officers make the conscious decision to serve in the police force. They know the risks & sign up for the job. No one is forcing them to do this. If you don’t want to put your life on the line to serve your community, that is fine. Totally understandable. Don’t be a police officer then. In fact, I encourage those people to not become police officers because they are the ones who are more prone to hurt/k--- someone. Police should be trained to handle dangerous situations far better than a civilian. The fact that you wouldn’t expect a cop to act any differently in the face of danger is a testament to how poor police training actually is.

I never said this. I said specifically that social workers ought to respond to certain calls rather than armed police such as dealing with homelessness & the mentally ill. I acknowledged that police may also need to tag along in these kinds of emergencies based on the situations. I believe Washington or Oregon has a program already that does this. Social workers are dispatched to certain 911 calls rather than police or some times both.

This is a logical fallacy. I’ve never played professional sports can I never criticize professional athletes? I’ve never held public office can I never criticize politicians? We can still evaluate performance & make rational arguments based on morals/ethics/comparison etc. We look at policing done in other developed nations & can make arguments to changing how policing is done here.

social workers absolutely deal with people with erratic/aggressive behavior on the daily—especially in the medical field. Have you been inside an emergency room late at night? It can get very chaotic.

It’s not just holding them accountable though. This isn’t just a “bad cop” issue—it’s a systemic issue. Cops are trained to be like this. They are inadequately trained (or not at all) to deal with social work which often is a vast majority of their job.

 

Aug 28, 2020

'able to predict' lmao, so basically you're fine with them shooting someone even if they see nothing? as long as they believe there COULD be something, that's fine right?

and if you can't see how 3-4 trained officers should be able to get 1 guy on the ground and cuff him, then i dunno what to tell you.

 

Aug 28, 2020

I'm not saying that they do not know what they are signing up for. But are you saying through their training they are not trained to stop a threat if present? Again this could be deadly force. And I could have worded it slightly better but no they may 'react' differently than myself as a citizen as they have far more training but in terms of how I would expect them to 'act' in a life or death situation is the same. I would expect them to defend themselves as any other human would. In war as you alluded to previously would be no different. Would those trained military members have the training to stop without killing as well? Or just simply allow the threat to k--- them because its "what they signed up for"?

I think we have found where we differ and I don't care to go much further down the rabbit hole.It is not that cops are trained for racial injustice or abuse of power. That is a corruption/bad cop issue that happens in any job. And if you truly believe this, I would once again argue that defunding is by far the worst idea as they should be funded for better training and correct the systematic issues. They can't push old, corrupt cops out if they can't hire or train new cops to come in. The nation is set up for a lose-lose situation here with that mindset. I would be interested to see a few articles if you would post showing the benefit of the social workers going on these calls in Oregon and Washington? I don't see much good coming out of either of those places as they are burning to the ground by their own citizens and that social worker correction (not sure when it was implemented) doesn't seem to have helped.

 

Aug 28, 2020

They are trained to do this & I find it extremely troubling. Emphasis on “threat elimination” rather than deescalation is problematic. That’s how you get s---t to k--- policies & people being shot up dozens of times by police. It’s barbaric & unnecessary.

The issue I have with this is police aren’t just “any other human.” They have a duty to protect & serve the community. Of course they can defend themselves but self protection is not their top priority. Conflict management & de-escalation is their top priority in dangerous situations. Police need to operate under a different set of rules than ordinary citizens. If someone comes at you aggressively & you beat the s--- out of them that’s different than a police taking that same action. They are suppose to be trained to handle those situations nonviolently if possible.

The military has an entirely different job description than police. Their goals & standards are not the same. Police are not at war with civilians. It’s apples & oranges.

This is just wrong. Are police trained to s---t black people on sight? No. But policies such as s---t-to-k---, stop-and-frisk, over policing low income communities etc. were set up discriminate against minority communities. I believe a lot of people go into the police force with good intentions but it doesn’t matter because the system trains/directs them to target minority communities.

I encourage you to go look at some of the police budgets in major cities—especially NYC. They are huge & often better funded than education, mental health services, community services, etc. We know through extensive research that better funding of other public services will lead to lower crime rates. Hence why people like myself want to defund bloated police budgets & reallocate those funds elsewhere that can actually make an impact. Police departments can do without armored vehicles, they aren’t a military force as I said earlier.

You should also look into police unions. One of the main reasons officers who engage in frequent misconduct don’t get fired is because of police unions. They negotiate contracts with cities that completely shield officers from being punished. They even provide paid for legal representation in court if needed.

It’s called the CAHOOTS program in Oregon. The WSJ did a longer write up about the program here.

 

Aug 28, 2020

The amount of rotten souls in this thread is shameful, go f--- yourselves for real

 

Aug 28, 2020

On topic of knives...

The army, navy and airforce are all trained that within 10 metres, you cannot possibly, draw, c---, aim then fire your gun before the guy with a knife lunges at you and stabs you. I assume police would be trained similarly.

You are also more likely to die/have serious injury from a knife wound over a gunshot wound

 

Aug 28, 2020

there are literally on-camera police murders of black people who are following orders

 

Aug 28, 2020

One of my personal favorites




The guy had his hands up but the pig decided he wanted to be Liu Kang anyways.

 

Aug 29, 2020

That one is disgusting.

 

Aug 29, 2020

I hear people saying we should defund the police???

Whats next? Defund the military?

Then what? Use that money to help people???