Apr 3, 2018

There isn't anything to debate. Obama never passed, encouraged or even talked about any legislation that limits the amount of cylinders in automobiles... that's a fact.


What Obama did... and what he is denied credit fot... like with so many other things... but this may be the most egregious... is completely save the American automotive industry.


When he came into office there was real reason to believe America was going to stop making cars... the Republican thoughts on it was "good."


Mitt Romney penned an OpEd piece titled "Let Detroit die." (For some reason he doesn't live in Michigan anymore).


Cash for Clunkers, the GM and Chrysler loans, the Green Innovative loan that created Tesla... and standards that encouraged American companies to compete with Asian and European 6 cylinder supercharged dual turbos that are better than v8s.

The fact that Obama isn't herald for his decisive and great decisions an the automotive industry is criminal... not only did America's car production not shut down in 2009.... American Cars are better and more competitive than they were before the Great Recession.

Still... right now... you can go buy a Dodge Hellcat and a Dodge Demon... made during the Obama administration... both with hundreds more horsepower and less mpgs with 8 cylinders than any coupe made in America when Bush43 was President.


So, just lie to try to make Obama look bad... like you always do.

 

Apr 3, 2018

Lol @ all of this garbage

 

Apr 3, 2018

The axis powers today have pretty much the same story we do about what happened during the war. Unless our propaganda was so good it even skewed their opinions on it.

 

Apr 3, 2018

Jewish power in the West today has expanded commensurate with the expansion of “Holocaust” propaganda, as noted by the Israeli author Moshe Leshem: “Israelis and American Jews fully agree that the memory of the Holocaust is an indispensable weapon--one that must be used relentlessly against their common enemy…Jewish organizations and individuals thus labor continuously to remind the world of it. In America, the perpetuation of the Holocaust memory is now a $100-million-a-year enterprise, part of which is government-funded.” (Balaam’s Curse, p. 228)

This is why Edgar Bronfman, the billionaire Canadian Seagram’s whiskey merchant and chairman of the powerful World Jewish Congress says, “The growing numbers of revisionist supporters cannot be ignored. We must use every resource to stop revisionism now, before it’s too late.”

 

Apr 3, 2018

It's murder plain and simple. No excuse to ever have an abortion. Getting r---d must be the worst thing imaginable but just have the baby and put it up for adoption. If it's gonna be mentally challenged, just have it and put it in a home or something because you never know it could be the next Stephen Hawking. Hawking is probably glad he wasn't aborted. Mothers don't die anymore giving birth, this isn't the 1800's lol.

 

Apr 3, 2018

No that's reality.

You live in a fantasy... where Obama stopped American manufacturers from building V8s... in reality there are now bigger and more powerful v8s than before Obama was President.... but there are much better engines of other configurations.


There was no ban... there was no attempted ban.... in fact Obama did everything he could to keep Americans building V8s.


Do you know who wanted Americans to stop building V8s... Obama's 2012 Republican Opponent Mitt Romney... he wanted Americans to stop building V8s, V6s, inline 6s, 4 bangers, et cetera...

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html



You're f---ing wrong.





Republicans actually started rooting for the demise of American Car Manufacturering... because they thought it would make Obama look bad.

Before Old Crazy Clinton Eastwood yelled at a chair and became a Republican hero... he did a Super Bowl Ad celebrating the fact that the American Automotive Industry was saved and it angered Republicans, because like you, they wanted to live in a fantasy world where Obama could do no right.




https://www.google.com/amp/ew.com/a...-eastwood-super-bowl-chrysler-commercial/amp/


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...wood-super-bowl-ad-puke-city-video-35215/amp/

 

Apr 3, 2018

^ Now that's rambling.

 

Apr 3, 2018

^ Now thats a good joke

 

Apr 3, 2018

Sorry it wasn't copy pasta about da joos from a website you get put on a watch list for visiting.

 

Apr 3, 2018

The first mass extinction occurred circa late 1970s/early ’80s, as a result of the first round of the government fuel economy edicts known by the acronym, CAFE — or Corporate Average Fuel Economy. CAFE mandated that cars (but not trucks) achieve an average of at least 22.5 MPG or else the automakers who continued to build such wastrels would be hit with “gas guzzler” fines, which they in turn would pass on to the consumer. This made the formerly commonplace full-frame, rear-drive (and V-8 powered) family car economically impossible — at least, given the technology of the late ’70s era.

So, they — mostly — disappeared.

V-8s (and mass-market large cars) made a comeback in the ’90s and through to the present day as technology — especially fuel injection and overdrive transmissions — made it possible to make the 22.5 MPG CAFE cut. Or at least, come close enough so that any “gas guzzler” fines were economically manageable. Even something as stunningly, obstreperously powerful as a 2012 Cadillac CTS-V — packing a 6.2 liter, 556 hp V-8 — can manage 19 MPG on the highway, thanks to the efficiency improvements of the past 20-something years.

But no technology in existence today — or on the horizon — will get the CTS-V or anything else with a V-8 under its hood close to the new CAFE mandatory minimum of 35.5 MPG, which goes into effect come 2016. That means — in all likelihood — that V-8 powered cars are about to go away again, this time probably for good.

In fact, the die-off is already happening.

The 2013 Jaguar XF — which since its introduction in 2009 has always come with nothing less than a five liter V-8 — will come standard with a 2.0 liter four next year. The optional engine will be a six of about 3 liters’ displacement.

Lexus has dropped the V-8 as an available upgrade in the 2013 GS series sport sedan, which is now V-6 (and hybrid) powered only. Audi has retired the A8’s 4.2 liter V-8, replacing it with a V-6.

Mercedes is going to introduce a new hybrid version of the E-Class for 2013. The V-8 version of the E will still be offered, but with a starting price of almost $60,000 it will not be a mass-market car.

V-8s are becoming engines for the rich-only. More on this in a minute.

Even sixes are in peril. BMW has shunted the formerly standard inline six in both the 3 and 5 Series, in favor of a new (twin-turbocharged) four.

It’s a clear trend — and the fact that we can see it developing on the luxury-performance end of the automotive spectrum is the proverbial canary in the coal mine as regards more modestly priced, large-engined cars such as the Chrysler 300 and — probably — much-anticipated but likely to be very short-lived models like the 2014 Chevy SS sedan.

If Jaguar, BMW, Audi, and Lexus can no longer afford to build V-8 cars (at least, in large numbers, as mass-market models), then it’s a dead certainty GM and Ford and Chrysler won’t be able to, either.

That includes trucks, incidentally.

The new CAFE standard — 35.5 MPG, average — doesn’t apply just to passenger cars, as the original 22.5 MPG CAFE standard did. Everything short of commercial vehicles is now lumped together in the same category. There is no more “light truck loophole” — the loophole that made it possible, back in the ’90s, for the car companies to do an end-run around CAFE for passenger cars by putting big engines into bigger vehicles that could be categorized as light trucks — and which they called SUVs.

Hence, Ford is discreetly — but very clearly — moving away from V-8s in its big trucks, such as the full-size F-series pickup. There’s still one available — for the moment. But the rest of the engine lineup — the mass market engine lineup — is all V-6. Ford calls these engines — tellingly — Ecoboost. They’re smaller displacement engines with a turbo (or two) bolted on to provide on-demand power but the better fuel efficiency of a smaller engine the rest of the time.

Turbos — and superchargers — are seen as the only technically feasible way to match (or at least, come close to) the power/performance of V-8s while still making the CAFE cut.

Well, is all this actually bad?

That depends on your perspective.

From the perspective of the automakers, it’s good. Because it gets Uncle off their backs — at least, temporarily — and increases their profit margin, since they simply pass on the costs of the more expensive powertrains (including maintenance costs) to customers.

From our perspective, as consumers, it’s not such a good deal. We pay more up front — and while that will be somewhat mitigated by reduced fuel consumption, those savings may — and probably will be — swept away by down-the-road maintenance and repair costs. Smaller, higher-stressed engines tend not to last as long as larger, less stressed engines. A force-fed (turbocharged or supercharged) engine is not likely to be a trouble-free 150,000 mile engine. Maybe these new-generation turbo’d and supercharged engines are built tougher — and will last longer. Or at least, as long as a similarly powerful, but less stressed, V-8. We’ll see. If they don’t, look out. Replacing a turbo on a late model car is typically a $2,000-plus job. Many of these CAFE-engineered new cars have two of them.

That’s that. Another thing is that the fuel economy gains are often not very impressive — on an individual vehicle basis. For instance, the current Ford F-truck’s available 5 liter V-8 rates 15 city, 21 highway. Not great. But the EcoBoost 3.5 liter V-6 (which makes about the same power as the V-8) comes in just slightly better, with a 16 city, 22 highway rating.

You’d think that extra 1-2 MPG would be irrelevant, but it’s crucial…. CAFE-wise. Ford sells on the order of half a million F-trucks each year. If each one costs Ford (and thus, customers) even as little as $300 more in gas guzzler taxes per vehicle, when multiplied by half a million, that becomes real money, real quickly.

So, here’s what to expect:

V-8s are going to get scarce. And I mean exotic-scarce. Last go’round, CAFE made it a lot harder for a working class person to own a V-8 powered new car. But if you were comfortably middle class, it was still feasible. There were Crown Vics and Town Cars. Bet you resivouar or whatever his name is isnt reading this far.

Upper middle class, no problem. $50k would do the trick — doable for a professional couple.

This time, V-8s will become the exclusive playthings of the very affluent only — people who can afford to spend $70k-plus for a low-volume (and so, CAFE irrelevant) car. Jaguar, for example, will probably continue to offer a V-8 in the ultra-performance (and ultra-expensive) XF-R version of the XF luxury-sport sedan. Mercedes will still offer V-8s in the E and S Class… for those few who can handle the freight.

What there won’t be anymore are cars like the currently available Chrysler 300 C Hemi and the bet-you-it-gets-canceled-soon Chevy SS; that is, cars — and trucks — for regular people and intended to be sold in volume.

Of course, Obama — and the next Dear Leader — will still get to drive around in cars powered by big V-8s that get far less than 35.5 MPG…with the gas bill paid by taxpayers.

And that’s just the way they want it.

 

Apr 3, 2018

Also the recent boom in the american automotive industry is solely on trump right now

 

Apr 3, 2018

Delusional.

There were less cars sold in America in 2017 than in 2016.

And 2015.

And 2014

And 2013.

And 2012.

 

Apr 3, 2018

Right why try and manage a situation yourself when you can just force it on the already overwhelmed and underfunded state systems

 

Apr 3, 2018

Trump is definitely better for the automotive industry than Obama was. It’s a fact based off of current statistics.

 

Apr 3, 2018

Couldn’t have anything to do with the start of the downturn in the economy

 

Apr 3, 2018

The stats are... we are selling less and making less cars under Trump than Obama.

 

Apr 3, 2018

Obama caused the downfall to begin with. You basically said it yourself a few post above showing the down trend while Obama was in office. It’s trump fault the auto sales were s--- during Obama’s term?

There’s way more that goes into this. Quit trying to pin it on trump.

 

Apr 3, 2018

No... that's this year and next year and the year after that (plus trade war, will make cars very expensive and, yes I expect that the Trump Recession has started and people will point to the first weeks of January 2018 when Trump was bragging about the Stick Markets as when it started.


My best guess (and I'm absolutely right) for the retraction of the car market in 2017 is that with Lyft, Uber and Touro... cars are seen as more of an on demand service rather than being necessary to own one.

 

Apr 3, 2018

r-----, Obama saved the American Automotive Industry... GMC and Chrysler entered bankruptcy months before Obama became President and weren't forecasted to survive.

Under Obama car sells continued to grow and then fell off by one million (1/7th of total sells) all at once in 2017.

 

Apr 3, 2018

Nooot necessarily yet. Wait til self driven ones start to come out that’s when things will start to really go uber and lyft’s way but for now it’s really only viable in cities, which a lot of the population of the U.S. doesn’t live in yet. As a person who doesn’t drive and relies on transpo like uber anywhere not in a city is difficult due to distance between destinations just too far to be a good option over a car rn. I think we’re gonna have to take the L with the automotive industry rn to make way for the future however. Cars for self use are a far way off from being obsolete but not forever so I feel you. But trump should do something imo to try to improve it.