Jul 22, 2016

And here is the simple knockout. Is Obama, the most popular and powerful man on earth oppressed? and if not, then is it possible to be racist towards him?
Aside from that L you've taken, i'm in no way disputing the presence of racism in America. What i'm disputing here is the meaning of the word 'racism'.

Brah, Albert Einstein spent his whole life studying physics, and he still got a few things wrong. Just because a professional tells you something that defy's basic logic does not make it objectively true. I fail to see why disagreeing with that is a cardinal sin, and if you are in no position to support the things you spout, then don't say anything and take an L.

Because debating the meaning of racism seems alot less important than having a deeper understanding of the natural universe. Also, sociology isn't the key to have a functioning society. If you looked at the simple definition, you would see that sociology is the study of society. Which requires that society must exist in the first place. Unless you think america's first world status is down to sociology and not technological advancements through warfare or economic foundations provided by slavery.

Not an argument against anything.

Still missing the point. Even if you don't find it offensive , it is a racist term. How offensive it is in comparison is irrelevant. Unless you think black people are more sensitive than white people.

 

Jul 22, 2016

FINE, i am willing to 100% agree with you. But saying that it's not possible to be racist to a white person on an individual level is bs! That's all i'm trying to say here.

 

Jul 22, 2016

Your argument needs a lot of finessing. It's a difficult topic. Screaming at paul isn't helping you grasp the necessary nuance

 

Jul 22, 2016

There are good individual policemen for sure, but the system of unaccountability and treating people of minority in an inhumane manner a disgusting recurrent cycle that needs to be addressed. Simple.

What people are asking for is very straightforward. Instead what you have is ignorant people saying blue lives matter to spite the fact that the systems has shown us our black lives do not matter as much.

 

Jul 22, 2016

1. It was hyperbole, and i was stating how less relevant it is than natural or computer science.
2. I never once passed myself off as an intellectual. I was simply laughing at the notion that somehow 'professionals' have a monopoly on logical discussion. As if i'm not allowed to disagree and have a logical debate about something. Maybe thinking for myself a little instead of ideologically following whatever ramblings i hear.

 

Jul 22, 2016

i think black people are too close to the subject and should be exiled from the debate, to be honest.

 

Jul 22, 2016

Yeah but this is the crux of my argument. and i even challenge you to dispute this.
If the most powerful man on earth isn't oppressed by any metric. Is it still not possible to be racist against him? Say what you may about 'institutional racism' . That's not what i'm talking about, you guys know alot more about it than me. But the dynamic of simply being racist on an individual level isn't something beyond anyone's comprehension. And saying that 'honkey' isn't racist because "racism against white people isn't real" neglects the basic definition of the word. Am i wrong to disagree with that? Can i at least ask that you differentiate the two separate terms and not equivocate them?

 

Jul 22, 2016

That's not "all you're trying to say here" at all--in your post to me, you argue that it's impossible to be racist toward Obama, because he himself has a powerful job That's one of the stupidest things I've read on this site. Why are you so violently opposed to learning?

Remember what I said last time? "Read Derrick Bell. You're punching above your weight." The answers to your rhetorical questions exist and are out there in black and white. The fact that you'd rather throw hissy fits on a message board than learn frankly makes me sad.

And I've pointed out more than ten times now that your understanding of the concept is wrong, or at least limited when it comes to American life and American politics.

This is not the same thing at all. We're talking about a working definition in a field of study, not an isolated error. What's more: You haven't engaged with that definition in any meaningful way. Like, since I started typing this, you replied to @Enigma talking about wanting "logical debate" on the topic. But you're not debating--you're just bitching.

I deserve a pat on the back for letting your insane number of spelling and grammatical errors go, right? Really undercuts your arguments on academic issues tbh!!

But to the point, nothing I'm arguing--or rather, simply pointing out--comes close to defying logic. Racism is a system of (or mechanism for) oppression based on race.

But again, you have not actually debated or deconstructed any of the accepted social science in this thread, you've just been kicking and screaming because you can't get your way. And you're telling people to "Take an L"? Please.

This is an extraordinarily privileged point of view. I hope you can see that.

Now see, this is the myopia I was talking about. What kind of dumbass, semantic bs is this? "Durrrrr you can't study a society that doesn't exist, stupid!"

Go back to my post. Sociology is one of the keys to crafting effective domestic policy.

Funny how you're making one of my central arguments for me.

Ironic, considering for all your pathetic crying in this thread, you haven't made a single cogent argument.

 

Jul 22, 2016

phenomenally stupid post

"Oh, the cops are killing you? You can't be objective, shut up"

He's a member of an oppressed group and no amount of individual success changes that. For the third time: "Read Derrick Bell. You're punching above your weight."

Institutional racism and the way it's manifested in individual cases are two facets of the same thing.

 

Jul 22, 2016

Yes, think for a bit. People have said egregiously racist things about Obama throughout his term. I'd characterize some of the opposition against him -- certainly their tonal choices -- as deeply racist. ("How dare this black b------ challenge my worldview/me/my "principals")

He's also, ya know, experienced actual, upfront racism throughout his life. He's written books, and given speeches, about the subtle challenges of being black in America.

Honkey is somewhat racist, but it's suchhhh a goofy toothless word. But I'm polished and UMC. If a black person said honkey to a hillbilly in the deep south, they might have a different reaction. So, words have a range of values depending on the time period/location. Given this country's history with racism, obviously derogatory terms for black people are farrrr worse. It's definitely not an eye-for-an-eye t-t-for-tat.

Always know your audience.

 

Jul 22, 2016

how is that wrong? that's like inviting a nazi to a debate on isreal

 

Jul 22, 2016

uh, no, it's like inviting........a jewish person to a debate on israel

 

Jul 22, 2016

Okay, fine, given the circumstances it's not hard to believe that racism might be felt more by black people and at a higher magnitude even on an individual level. And i'm not particularity trying to say that it's just as bad to be racist to white people. I can easily understand how in a history of racism, contextually, a racist insult to a black person might mean more individually as historical racism partially defines their heritage where as a white man will see it as nothing more than a one of insult. But the notion that it's not even possible to be racist to white people, the notion that the definition itself in no way acknowledges white people is something I can't accept. It seems like a bit more than his usual hyperbole . And he defends that statement as a literal one with quite illogical justification. How then am i wrong to disagree?

 

Jul 22, 2016

youd have to ask him, but i find it hard to believe you can discriminate against white people, who usually have soo many advantages (generally speaking), on an institutional level.

but the system also has a lot of prejudices built in. its never cut and dry

(and btw, right now ur focused on like, a hypothetical. why not spend your time analyzing whats ACTUALLY happening.)

 

Jul 22, 2016

Ignoring the fact that this is factually incorrect and you're twisting the definition just to fit your argument, how could you even explain cases like Africa?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/4264747/We-will-not-tolerate-racism-except-in-Zimbabwe.html

http://www.relativityonline.com/home/racism-alive-and-well-in-south-africa/

I'm not denying your argument or saying that blacks aren't treated like s--- in America, but let's not go down this route pls, apply the proper terms here.

lol dude what the f--- is the point of this comment?

Why do you keep deprecating Chad's profession when it's completely unrelated to politics? What are YOUR set of skills to make such statement?

 

Jul 22, 2016

no it's like inviting a jewish person to a debate on palestine

 

Jul 22, 2016

Because Malik's constant lashing out at others he thinks are fake "intellectuals" is projection--that's how he fancies himself. He wants to talk about things on theoretical levels. The problem is that he doesn't understand the underlying realities yet. He's skipping the most important step.

*takes seven xanax so I can make it through a Pato post without falling asleep*

*Sigh* Why would you even come in here with this? Did you read any of the thread? I've explained time and time and time and time again that I'm not twisting any definitions, I'm referring to the working definitions of racism in American sociology. If you have a problem with that, fly here and take it up with them.

I..................................wouldn't? Like, what? I'm talking specifically and explicitly about America. Africa has a different history and different social structures, different everything. Jesus Christ, what a reach.

I am, sorry if it bothers you.

I think that it's frankly very sad that children are being taught by a man who's openly racist and mocks handicapped people. You'd agree that that's a reasonable opinion, I'm sure?

How is a black person talking about police brutality--of which they're the victim--the same as Nazis talking about Jewish people in Europe, of whom they were the oppressor? Backward analogy.

 

Jul 22, 2016

Discrimination has no pre-requisite. You can discriminate against an individual or group for whatever reason you want. It's not up to the discriminated, it's up to the discriminator. racism also implies more than discrimination. It also has to do with stereotyping . in which case negative stereotypes can be made with any race for any reason. Justified or not.

Ok i don't blame you since you joined a bit late, but the original dispute was with WPG referring to all (all) white people as "Honkeys" and me saying that he should have at least been warned for racism. (i got banned for using 'n----' (in single quotes) even though i'm black, which is the point) His reply was that racism to towards white people doesn't exist, even though what he did was classify all white people using a negative stereotype which falls DIRECTLY under the definition of the word. We weren't actually drifting into the typical race discussion.

Lets clear this up, i'm calling wpg a racist for using the word honkey (Something that actually happened). And that's where all of this started from.

 

Jul 22, 2016

LMAOOOOOOO You whiney lil loser. I was mocking/mirroring JMG's anti-black rhetoric and the absurdity of screeds about "black-on-black crime"--my post was pointing out the hypocrisy of those arguments. The fact that you took it as face value, with me wishing death on "honkeys" is hysterical. Jesus Christ.

Wait, wait, wait. You said that "honkey" was a racist term which should result in a ban or whatever. A laughable argument, but fine. Now you're saying that I'm...................a racist? L O L are you kidding? WPG, radical anti-white bigot

You're embarrassing yourself. Log out.

(Also rofl @ you still quibbling over the definition of racism. Haven't made one single, single substantive point against the dozens of times I've corrected you.)

 

Jul 22, 2016

hate is a 2 way street. are you saying that white nationalists (of which i am not one, for the record) aren't victims of hate and oppression for their beliefs?