The "How Many Rings?" Argument in Sport

Started by SHUDEYE, Jan 12, 2020, in Sports Add to Reading List

  1. Enigma
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    Enigma Civil liberties > Police safety

    Jan 15, 2020
    Obviously that’s the discussion/argument most sports fan jump to but it’s a poor argument & we see examples of it time & time again. No one calls Bill Russell the GOAT or thinks Eli Manning is better than Aaron Rodgers & Drew Brees. It’s flawed logic & just because most sports fans resort to it doesn’t mean we should give it any attention. Great players are great for what they do individually. You don’t see people calling bench players all time greats for simply being on championship winning teams.

    You have to really think about all the variables that goes into winning a championship in any team sport. Think about all the things that are out of a single player’s control. A QB doesn’t play two whole sides of the ball (defense & special teams). An individual NBA player has no control over how the rest of his team shoots. There’s just so many variables that holding individual players accountable to championships is nonsensical. It’s literally no in their control. You brought up Dan Marino which is a great example. Thinking any less of Dan Marino because his team couldn’t win a championship is ridiculous. You’re literally criticizing him for something that he can’t control himself.
     
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  2. Fitzy
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    Fitzy BeliGOAT

    Jan 15, 2020
    Tom also led the biggest comeback in Super Bowl history with Gronk on the sidelines.

    28-3 never forget.

    Jordan is the GOAT. I wanted LeBron to be the GOAT since he came into the league because I f---ing hated Jordan my whole childhood.

    Jordan is still the greatest I've ever watched, and it sucks cuz Jordan was a f---ing douche bag and LeBron is a good dude.

    LeBron's problem is he's too smart of a basketball player and will defer to his other teammates too much.

    There's been a handful of times (namely his championship seasons) that he's absolutely taken over and willed his team to the title.

    Problem is, Jordan was like that every f---ing night. Dude was just relentless, even in the regular season.

    But in other years, LeBron will defer to other teammates. s--- drives me f---ing crazy. Also his cramping in the NBA Finals bothers me.

    Also, LeBron should be compared to Magic Johnson more than Michael Jordan. They are totally different in their styles of play. I just prefer a player like Jordan or Kobe, where they'll go through anything to win you a game.

    Other fans love the facilitators like LeBron or Magic.

    Others like the dominant centers like Shaq, Hakeem, Wilt, Russell etc.

    Depends on your preference, I guess, but for me Jordan would go and win you the game, by any means.

    And of course championships matter. Tom Brady was a first ballot hall of famer within the first 4 years of his NFL career because he led his team to 3 Super Bowls in 4 years.

    Eli Manning will probably be a hall of famer for winning 2 Super Bowls, while having a pretty average career.

    Franchises recruit these players to win championships, not to put up statistics.
     
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  3. Fitzy
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    Fitzy BeliGOAT

    Jan 15, 2020
    Honestly, in football, I have a top 5 at every position, to where I'm OK with those players in the argument. Like for QB I'd say Brady Montana Peyton Elway and Marino. And I'll be OK with any of those 5 getting respect as the GOAT, but I'll always put my two cents in. Same as running back, wide receiver, etc etc etc.

    There are SOOO many variables in football for success.

    Basketball is kind of different for me though, because 1 player can absolutely dominate a game for you. Now, does that always mean a championship? Of course not. Those players need a team built around them. Like I said in previous post though, I look at top elite talent as playing different roles. Like Steph Curry is the best shooter I've ever seen, and I'd compare him to Ray Allen or Reggie Miller. Michael Jordan is a ball dominant player, and I'd compare him to players like Kobe, Dwayne Wade, Paul Pierce etc. LeBron is a facilitator, so I'd compare him to players like Magic, Stockton, Kidd, etc. Then you have the big, dominant men like Shaq, Wilt, KG, Duncan etc.
     
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  4. Tom Brady
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    Tom Brady "I'm a pretty good winner."

    Jan 16, 2020
    It’s okay to just have Lebron classified as “different”. He’s going to have the most points of all time. Could very well end up in the top 5 in assist ever. He is a ball dominant player like Jordan or Kobe. He is a great playmaker like Magic or Stockton. He is a dominant force like Shaq or Wilt. Some people are just on another level and that’s what LeBron is.
     
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  5. SHUDEYE
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    SHUDEYE Kerser is the sickest.

    Jan 16, 2020
    Well if we're discussing individuals instead of teams I don't think it's that insane.

    And that's the thing, fans have turned it into this be all and end all.
     
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  6. Boos
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    Boos Nova Nation

    Jan 16, 2020
    Russell Westbrook is the counterpoint to this argument. All-time stat guy, but useless if you’re actually trying to win a title.
     
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  7. Enigma
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    Enigma Civil liberties > Police safety

    Jan 16, 2020
    Basketball is a bit different because you have 5 players who play both offense & defense. An individual player in basketball has much more control over the outcomes of games than in most other team sports for sure. Even then though, we’ve seen basketball players put up great performances & their team still lose.
     
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  8. Section80
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    Jan 16, 2020
    Mike > lbj not even close. Inflated modern stats and lackluster overall effort in regular season still doesn't close the gap to Mike. He would be utterly dominant if he played today
     
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