Serious China being accused of Uyghur genocide - Discussion

Started by hargydon, May 17, 2021, in Life Add to Reading List

  1. hargydon
    Posts: 6,009
    Likes: 18,582
    Joined: Oct 7, 2016

    hargydon No investigation, no right to speak

    May 17, 2021
    Xinjiang - Understanding Complexity, Building Peace.

    Here I present to you an Italian white paper translated to English with 38 pages detailing the complex history of the Xinjiang region:

    Historical, geographic and economic outlook
    Terrorism and separatism
    Past wars and revolts
    Before and after September 11th: from war to terrorism
    Beijing’s response
    Characteristics of the terrorist phenomenon
    The SCO and China’s multilateral approach
    Evolution of the Chinese approach
    China-Bashing and geopolitics

    http://www.cese-m.eu/cesem/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/EN-Xinjiang-2.pdf
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2021
    #1
    2
    Ordinary Joel and Lucy like this.
    2
    Ordinary Joel and Lucy like this.
    Mar 29, 2024
  2. hargydon
    Posts: 6,009
    Likes: 18,582
    Joined: Oct 7, 2016

    hargydon No investigation, no right to speak

    May 17, 2021
    I can sense a can of worms being opened here but without assumptions what are we talking about here? And I mean as in, something that is actually happening, not what think tanks & mainstream media in the West pump out as anti-China sentiment during the current Cold War 2.0 ramp up that can easily be debunked.

    I’d be willing to engage in a discussion about this stuff because I know there is a lot of people politically illiterate to places like China but only if it’s in good faith as it’d be a long-winded one so it’s got to be worth the effort. It’s kind of frightening seeing how easy it has been for people to be fooled about that country knowing that a war could be just around the corner. Public opinion is the 1st step to a missile launch.
     
    #2
    2
    Ordinary Joel and Rodamon like this.
    2
    Ordinary Joel and Rodamon like this.
    Mar 29, 2024
  3. Sign Language
    Posts: 11,696
    Likes: 24,587
    Joined: Jan 2, 2015
    Location: Screwston

    Sign Language We miss you Screw

    May 17, 2021
    I hope Xi sees this
     
    Mar 29, 2024
  4. hargydon
    Posts: 6,009
    Likes: 18,582
    Joined: Oct 7, 2016

    hargydon No investigation, no right to speak

    May 17, 2021
    See what I mean lol.

    I hope Biden sees this
     
    #4
    0 0
    Mar 29, 2024
  5. 1999
    Posts: 16,157
    Likes: 33,318
    Joined: Dec 15, 2016

    May 17, 2021
    What do you think he misunderstands about China?
     
    #5
    0 0
    Mar 29, 2024
  6. Sign Language
    Posts: 11,696
    Likes: 24,587
    Joined: Jan 2, 2015
    Location: Screwston

    Sign Language We miss you Screw

    May 17, 2021
    Not being a fan of China doesn’t mean I’m pro Biden.

    Muslims being forcefully put into Chinese camps isn’t some made up conspiracy by the western world. If you have proof that it is, then hey I’m all ears.
     
    Mar 29, 2024
  7. hargydon
    Posts: 6,009
    Likes: 18,582
    Joined: Oct 7, 2016

    hargydon No investigation, no right to speak

    May 17, 2021
    I don’t know that’s why I’m asking. It could be any number of things, there’s plenty of bs regarding it on the airwaves. There’s also the fact that our system level design is inherently different so perception can be flawed from inception due to this alone. Comparing Western free market Capitalist states to market socialist states more often than not results in false equivalencies by itself.
     
    #7
    1
    Ordinary Joel likes this.
    1
    Ordinary Joel likes this.
    Mar 29, 2024
  8. hargydon
    Posts: 6,009
    Likes: 18,582
    Joined: Oct 7, 2016

    hargydon No investigation, no right to speak

    May 17, 2021
    I know, that was the point I’m making, you just did it to me.

    I can understand a state without being a “fan” — I can condemn problematic practices & champion successful practices because I don’t think in binary lol
    Ah that one. Very complex issue, one that involves a lot of understanding in different areas, I’d be willing to make a thread breaking it down if you’re interested?

    A note I’ll make here though is this originally began being reported as a genocide in the West & now has become imprisonment, the same states reporting this are the same states supporting genocide against the Palestinians, how strange. Every Muslim-dominant country on the planet has denied the allegations of human rights abusive practices & institutions like the World Bank too, even the Palestinian ambassador has visited & reported no issues — I can source all of this if needed. America is the only state that has refused China’s invitation to see Xinjang for itself. Like I said, I can make an in depth thread if interested. The drums of war are beating louder every single day.
     
    #8
    1
    Ordinary Joel likes this.
    1
    Ordinary Joel likes this.
    Mar 29, 2024
  9. Sign Language
    Posts: 11,696
    Likes: 24,587
    Joined: Jan 2, 2015
    Location: Screwston

    Sign Language We miss you Screw

    May 17, 2021
    I was literally spoofing the “I hope she sees this” meme. Was more of a joke then a jab at you.
    A thread would be a waste of time (because most people on here won’t give a s---) but send me your “break down” in a pm and I’ll definitely take a look
     
    Mar 29, 2024
  10. hargydon
    Posts: 6,009
    Likes: 18,582
    Joined: Oct 7, 2016

    hargydon No investigation, no right to speak

    May 17, 2021
    Okay, my bad. Every time I open my mouth about f---ing China I get backlash so I guess I projected it onto your comment too, so apologies for that.
    My threads be flopping in the music section as it is so yeah you probably right, I’ll send you some stuff though.
     
    #10
    2
    Ordinary Joel and Sign Language like this.
    2
    Ordinary Joel and Sign Language like this.
    Mar 29, 2024
  11. 1999
    Posts: 16,157
    Likes: 33,318
    Joined: Dec 15, 2016

    May 17, 2021
    What are some of the key propaganda points regarding china? Genuinely asking
     
    #11
    1
    Ordinary Joel likes this.
    1
    Ordinary Joel likes this.
    Mar 29, 2024
  12. hargydon
    Posts: 6,009
    Likes: 18,582
    Joined: Oct 7, 2016

    hargydon No investigation, no right to speak

    May 17, 2021
    - Uighur genocide/concentrations camps whatever they want to call it, as stated by @Sign Language
    - General censorship
    - “The people don’t know they’re oppressed” — let’s understand how racist this actually is. To assume over 1 billion people are unaware of their situation solely because of their origin. They must need the white mans help!
    - Surveillance — yet less CCTV per capita than USA.
    - Their diets
    - “I don’t hate the Chinese people, only their government” — yet 98% approval rate from its citizens. (risen from 93% in 2013)
    - 5G towers — lol
    - COVID
    - “Greenhouse gas emissions highest in the world” — yet per capita (the correct measurement) they are 15th highest of wealthy nations, per co2 metric tons, they emit 6.4, whereas joint highest USA & Saudi Arabia, emit 17.6, according to the World Bank & has also pledged to be completely carbon neutral by 2060. Also, guess where the West outsources it’s productivity that creates these emissions?

    They’re the main talking points but there’s a general anti-China sentiment almost daily in the mainstream networks at the moment, they’ll twist whatever new story they can to fit the negative narrative being perpetuated. I saw them report the fact that China has lifted 800 million people out of extreme poverty since WW2 & they still managed to spin that to whataboutery as far as US interests are concerned — the West is so self-obsessed it’s absurd. You know it’s working when even the left are against China.
     
    #12
    3
    DKC, Ordinary Joel and 1999 like this.
    3
    DKC, Ordinary Joel and 1999 like this.
    Mar 29, 2024
  13. 1999
    Posts: 16,157
    Likes: 33,318
    Joined: Dec 15, 2016

    May 17, 2021
    America has every country beat by a mile as far as surveillance goes, 5g towers are a weirdo conspiracy, I understand most of the other points although I'm not knowledgeable about them or what they're being portrayed as tbh, and I know well about the emissions but what about their Diets and COVID? Maybe we should make a new thread where you debunk this if possible
     
    #13
    3
    DKC, Ordinary Joel and hargydon like this.
    3
    DKC, Ordinary Joel and hargydon like this.
    Mar 29, 2024
  14. Sign Language
    Posts: 11,696
    Likes: 24,587
    Joined: Jan 2, 2015
    Location: Screwston

    Sign Language We miss you Screw

    May 17, 2021
    - they literally have a giant firewall to block their people's access to information. Journalists get detained and jailed for speaking out against the government all the time.
    -never seen the talking point of "they don't know they are oppressed". They absolutely know they are oppressed, but they know they can't really do anything about it.
    -surveillance they do is pretty f----- but the US has no room to talk. We are just more subtle about the way we spy on our citizens.
    -some of their diet is........unconventional. But again, americans have no room to talk
    -you really think those "98% approval rating' are a genuine reflection of how the people feel? Cmon man they know you'd have to be an idiot to speak out against the CCP.
    -5G tower conspiracies are the epitome of stupidity
    -They absolutely lied about their covid numbers. They forced doctors who warned people early on to recant their statements

    As far as the "800 million people lifted out of poverty since WW2" fact, people tend to omit they killed millions of their own people in the process. Mao was brutal

    Just because the US does f----- up s--- all the time, that doesn't give China a pass to do so
     
    #14
    3
    DKC, BIGFOOT and Ordinary Joel like this.
    3
    DKC, BIGFOOT and Ordinary Joel like this.
    Mar 29, 2024
  15. hargydon
    Posts: 6,009
    Likes: 18,582
    Joined: Oct 7, 2016

    hargydon No investigation, no right to speak

    May 17, 2021
    If there’s any on that list that you’ve not seen just Google the words along with China & you’ll get the picture.

    The diet is simply a racist rhetoric used whenever there’s a positive spin on something Chinese but it’s merely a cultural difference. Also proves the whole “I don’t hate the people, only their government” argument is a red herring when they conflate the two instantly.

    Covid has a number of angled attacks, whether it’s a deliberate bio weapon leak to destabilise countries or the diet rhetoric again. Then there’s the whole, locking people in their homes hysteria.

    This is the thing, China is a socialist state where societies needs are viewed as a collective concern & objective, the government isn’t afraid of intervention where it feels necessary, that’s its job. This is the fundamental difference of our systems, we in the West have what we label “freedom” which has its positives but also allows people to make uneducated decisions during a pandemic which costs thousands of lives as a result, we’ve all seen the covidiots as civilians but apply that to the business lobbying ruling governments too. This is also why people view government intervention in the West as a threat then project it onto whatever China is doing, like I said before it can create false equivalencies — perception is key here (along with an understanding of different social & economic systems.)

    China did in fact lock their citizens in their homes during the lockdown of Wuhan, but they also used their police officers & other civil servants to deliver food to them too. It was a forced full lockdown, as it was seen as the only logical way of eradicating the virus from a scientific perspective. This was done for their protection & it was highly effective, they were having parties in summer last year, considering they were the epicentre of the virus, that’s impressive.

    I’m done derailing this thread any longer, if there’s any more information you’re interested in you can tag me in a new thread or PM me.
     
    #15
    2
    DKC and Ordinary Joel like this.
    2
    DKC and Ordinary Joel like this.
    Mar 29, 2024
  16. 1999
    Posts: 16,157
    Likes: 33,318
    Joined: Dec 15, 2016

    May 17, 2021
    I know how the virus started, I know it wasn't bat soup or a purposeful attack. I also know some Chinese civilians like eating strange animals people here consider pets, that s--- doesn't matter to me. I'm more curious about the lockdowns tbh, under no circumstance do I think it's okay to lock civilians inside of their own homes even "for their own safety". I'm all for a shutdown and closing everything down but locking you into your f---ing house physically is ridiculous.
     
    #16
    1
    Ordinary Joel likes this.
    1
    Ordinary Joel likes this.
    Mar 29, 2024
  17. hargydon
    Posts: 6,009
    Likes: 18,582
    Joined: Oct 7, 2016

    hargydon No investigation, no right to speak

    May 18, 2021
    We’re talking about a time where the science was completely unknown about the virus, there was virtually no understanding of causality or prevention. There was people dying on the streets, do you not remember? It’s okay for us with the quarter of a year head start to look at that situation with contempt but it was only logical there at that time. Less than 1% of the deaths of the USA & we’re seriously having this discussion?
     
    #17
    1
    Ordinary Joel likes this.
    1
    Ordinary Joel likes this.
    Mar 29, 2024
  18. 1999
    Posts: 16,157
    Likes: 33,318
    Joined: Dec 15, 2016

    May 18, 2021
    I remember the videos of people dying in the street, I'm not sure how many of those we can find anymore but isn't it odd that didn't happen anywhere else? I haven't thought about it since it first started tbh that s--- was wild. Either way the government padlocking civilians inside of their homes is okay with you?
     
    #18
    0 0
    Mar 29, 2024
  19. Sign Language
    Posts: 11,696
    Likes: 24,587
    Joined: Jan 2, 2015
    Location: Screwston

    Sign Language We miss you Screw

    May 18, 2021
    5DC3065D-92A0-4F06-9DFB-C827A96468F5.jpeg
     
    #19
    3
    Guma, Ordinary Joel and 1999 like this.
    3
    Guma, Ordinary Joel and 1999 like this.
    Mar 29, 2024
  20. hargydon
    Posts: 6,009
    Likes: 18,582
    Joined: Oct 7, 2016

    hargydon No investigation, no right to speak

    May 18, 2021
    It was happening in Italy & France too because nobody was closing their f---ing borders. It’s okay with me in this context yes. I’ve spent most of the pandemic in my house due to my family members being vulnerable & I didn’t want to put them at risk. I would’ve been glad to of received material support from my government with food subsidised & delivered to my door etc instead of being made redundant in the middle of the pandemic therefore unable to receive financial support & forcing me to use my own savings (like millions of others in the West.) I’m one of the lucky ones over here though, at least I’m not in the millions that have died.
     
    #20
    1
    Ordinary Joel likes this.
    1
    Ordinary Joel likes this.
    Mar 29, 2024