The "How Many Rings?" Argument in Sport

Started by SHUDEYE, Jan 12, 2020, in Sports Add to Reading List

  1. SHUDEYE
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    SHUDEYE

    Kerser is the sickest.

    Jan 12, 2020
    This personally is one of my biggest pet-peeves with sporting arguments and debating how GOAT a player was/is. Where do you stand on it and its worth in comparing two individual players?

    Winning a championship is obviously the ultimate goal in all sports but there's too many variables in it for me to use it as a solid measuring stick. I mean hypothetically the greatest player ever could get drafted to the shittest team that's full of cabdrivers and stay there out of loyalty and never achieve a championship.

    I also so often see people bring up LeBron's 3-8 or 3-9 (whatever it is) record as a way to shit on him for example. Would it be more impressive if he only made it the three times he won and didn't make it at all the other times he lost?

    I don't think a championship is irrelevant to the conversation but I don't understand why it's such a weighted part of the argument. I personally think it's stupid.
     
    Jan 27, 2020
  2. Bojack
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    Bojack

    P.S. Horseman

    Jan 12, 2020
    I thought this was about how to wife a needy bitch.
    Ah don’t mind me
     
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  3. CSA
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    CSA

    DAMN.

    Jan 13, 2020
    Championship doesn't mean shit. Only thing I'm impressed about when it comes to the title or final numbers is the fact that LeBron had played 8-9 playoffs back to back and he even carried one of the shittiest team to the NBA Final. That record of his cannot be used to shit on him. If anything, he deserves a props. He made it to the playoffs regardless of the team he was in for almost a decade lol. I can see MJ fans bringing that up with a complete ignorance but that's because they barely had any argument left to explain why MJ is still the GOAT lol. Who cares about the goat. Number wise I know MJ will be under LeBron by the time LeBron retires anyway.
     
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  4. SHUDEYE
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    SHUDEYE

    Kerser is the sickest.

    Jan 13, 2020
    I just used LeBron as an example because I'm on a forum filled with Americans and it's the only sport I follow properly apart from Australian football which would be pointless to use examples for. But yeah, I personally can't stand the argument in general I think it's so stupid using team accomplishments as such a weighted argument when comparing individuals.
     
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  5. JB21
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    Jan 13, 2020
    This is a good thread. Obviously the goal for every team every year is to win it all. Is it all about one player? No, but at the same time it kinda is. Imagine MJ w/out Pippen/Rodman. Imagine LBJ w/out Bosh/Wade. Imagine Brady w/out Gronk/Edelman.
     
    Jan 27, 2020
  6. ChadCunt
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    ChadCunt

    i fucked your missus

    Jan 13, 2020
    i got 4 championship rings
     
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  7. Alchemist34
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    Alchemist34

    DO MY HEAD

    Jan 14, 2020
    thought the title was about how many rings can a guy wear without being gay
     
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  8. Marshall III
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    Jan 14, 2020
    Tom Brady is the goat. End of discussion.
     
    Jan 27, 2020
  9. Five Star
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    Jan 14, 2020
    Robert Horry > Michael Jordan
     
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  10. CSA
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    CSA

    DAMN.

    Jan 14, 2020
    Lol. You proved it's at least about 2 3 players in a team. MJ couldn't even get to the playoffs till pippen arrived. Hell, if it wasn't for Ray Allen, LeBron couldn't get the ring that year. Having one player doesn't matter.
     
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  11. Kon
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    Kon

    Jan 14, 2020
    Yikes, couldn’t possibly disagree more with some of the stuff said in here by CSA and op. Too lazy to get into it and sick of this discussion though, had it so many times.
     
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  12. Fitzy
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    Fitzy

    7

    Jan 15, 2020
    dude, Jordan dropped 63 points, in the playoffs, on one of the greatest teams of all time (86 Celtics), in like his 2nd year in the league lol.

    Anyways, Jordan was the best I've ever seen. And I f--king HATED Jordan, but that dude was a flat out winner.

    Honestly though, Pippen is overrated to me. He was a defensive specialist, but he averaged like 16 points per game for his career.

    Paul Pierce was a better scorer than Pippen though lol. Dude benefited so much from playing with Jordan. Dude would have been a side kick on most teams in that era. He was good but he was not a Wade or even a Kyrie.

    Wade was already a top 5 talent in the league, maybe even top 3 and led the Heat to a title way before Lebron joined.

    Also, Rodman was a role player, he was passed his prime when he joined the Bulls. Rodman really was just a rebound specialist.

    He also retired right in the middle of his prime. If Jordan played those 2 years fully, they would have won 8 straight NBA titles lol.

    Also, let's go with a few other things...

    Jordan: 1x defensive player of the year, 3x steals leader, 5x NBA MVP, 9x 1st team all defensive, 10x scoring champion

    Lebron James: 0x defensive player of the year, 4x NBA MVP, 5x 1st all defensive team, 1x scoring champion.

    That's also with Jordan's 12 seasons with the Bulls (I don't count the season where he played like 25% of it) vs LeBron's 17 seasons.

    Jordan was a killer. LeBron is a facilitator. LeBron's brand of basketball relies more on the players around him. It's way different.

    I hated Jordan but I've grown to respect the f--k out of what he did.

    The way LeBron played when he won his 3rd championship was very Michael Jordan-like though. I'll never take that away from him. But Jordan did that every single year he played.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
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  13. CSA
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    CSA

    DAMN.

    Jan 15, 2020
    Lol. Explain why Jordan couldn't get any rings before pippen then ? Guess it's matter of team after all. Don't @ me with that bs. U guys actin as if Jordan only played for the 6 season he won the title how about other 10 seasons he played that he couldn't even make it playoffs lol

    BTW, if Jordan played that 2 years, well he didn't so who cares.
     
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  14. Fitzy
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    Fitzy

    7

    Jan 15, 2020
    Lol, Jordan made the playoffs every year he was with the Bulls, wtf are you talking about?

    Fact check next time. Only years he missed the playoffs was with the Wizards, when he was passed his prime.

    He won MVP and Defensive Player of the Year in his 4th season in the NBA too lol. Stop it.

    But OK, even if you take rings out of the conversation, he still has more scoring titles, more MVPs, more defensive titles, more first defensive all teams... And in less time than LeBron or Kobe..

    So wouldn't he be better by your argument? Or what is your argument vs Jordan? You can go by rings or accolades, either one, he is ahead of basically everyone.

    And no shit Pippen helped Jordan, but people act like Pippen was a top 5 player in that era, and he wasn't. He was a defensive specialist and a solid 2nd option for the Bulls, but it was rare the Pippen could take over a game.

    The same can NOT be said for Wade or Shaq. Shaq was the most dominant player at the time when he played with Kobe, and Wade was fully capable of taking over a game when LeBron was off (Wade was easily a top 5 player when LeBron was with him).

    You don't seem like you know basketball that well lol.
     
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  15. CSA
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    CSA

    DAMN.

    Jan 15, 2020
    He made it to playoffs but barely. Whatever, you are right MJ is the biggest I don't care. I look at the numbers and can't see how MJ is better than Lebron that's it. They both are great and that's it. By the time Lebron retires, he would be ranked higher than MJ statistically, hell he might already ranked better.
     
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  16. Enigma
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    Enigma

    Civil liberties > Police safety

    Jan 15, 2020
    When we talk about all time great players in any team sport, we’re talking about individual performance. Championships don’t measure individual performance. End of discussion.
     
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  17. Tom Brady
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    Tom Brady

    "I'm a pretty good winner."

    Jan 15, 2020
    LeBron is the goat and it’s kind of not even a debate at this point.
     
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  18. Kon
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    Kon

    Jan 15, 2020
    This is ridiculous. When we talk about the all time greats in any sport, we talk about people who have won multiple championships. In most cases if they didn’t, they wouldn’t be seen as an all time great, or at the very least not to the same level.

    If Bron never won a ring, a majority of fans wouldn’t have him in the same discussion as MJ even if his stats were the same as they are or even better.

    Yea I know there’s all time greats like Karl Malone and Dan Marino that are still seen as legendary with no championships. But your legacy is taken to another level with one and you’ll never be in any GOAT convo without winning. Also how you perform on the biggest stage is far more important than how you play in the reg season or stats or any shit like that.

    For people to act like individual performance and team accomplishments are completely separate even when comparing HOF players is insane to me. Winning a ship is the number 1 achievement in sports and yes obviously it’s done as a ‘team’ but the best player or players on that team are what puts you in that position to get there and win it..

    When comparing all time greats especially in basketball, imo the category that holds the most weight is championships.
     
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  19. Boos
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    Boos

    Nova Nation

    Jan 15, 2020
    Brady would still have 3 rings lol
     
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  20. Boos
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    Boos

    Nova Nation

    Jan 15, 2020
    What do you know, CSA is an idiot in all facets of life, not just music.
     
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