THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE

Started by Tha_Goat, Jun 5, 2017, in Entertainment Add to Reading List

  1. Tha_Goat
    Posts: 587
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    Tha_Goat

    A man got to have a code

    Jun 5, 2017
    So if any of you watch Game of Thrones you are most likely familiar with the greatest novella series ever written (and still being written...) A Song Of Ice And Fire. The show is based on this series and for the most part it is a pretty good adaptation of the books. Seasons 1 & 2 are pretty identical with the first 2 books then each entity take its own path to the finish line. Unfortunately the show has surpassed the books and will spoil the rest of the story before the books come to an end (unless George is releasing The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring as a double which has been rumored and is as likely to happen as Meek Mill claiming top spot in any rap debate or contest...) This thread is made for discussion beyond the present day Westeros/Essos we currently know. We will dive into character profiles/events/and institutions that directly or indirectly shape The World Of Ice And Fire. George has created a world full of history and has given us a richness of a world that we can relate to as individuals. As means to get this thread rolling and alive I am going to start off with the events prior to the start of "A Game of Thrones." For the show watchers this might get confusing as some of the characters that will be discussed in this thread are not in the show currently or for the unforeseeable future. If you are a book reader or a loyal show watcher you are instantly thinking of Roberts Rebellion (and rightfully so). However I am going to dive into a certain relationship between two people that have been the underlining foundation to A Song Of Ice And Fire.

    FROM THIS POINT ON: POSSIBLE SPOILERS!

    R+L=YG (fA)
    N+A=J

    What you see isn't a typo! Jon Snow is not the son of Rhaegar Targaryen & Lyanna Stark. I Repeat R+L=YG(fA)
    I know HBO confirmed that he was at the end of Season 6 but they have been known to lie to us before (I.e Jon being dead at the end of season 5) This lie is also a much easier sell as most people are on the R+L=J train and want to believe its true; please note this thread is oriented towards to the books and the world George "fat f--k" RR Martin has created not the adaption Weiss and Benioff has created! They tell the same story but are extremely different!!!

    Jon Snow is not only the true born son of Ned Stark but he is the ONLY true born child of Ned Stark!!!

    [​IMG]

    If you want to be mentioned for future post let me know and i'll keep a tab to mention the family.


    So your probably all wondering how the f--k is Jon Ned's true born child and ONLY TRUE BORN child. In order to tackle this we must take a hard look at Ned's past and primarily the events of the Tourney at Harrenhal/The Tower of Joy/Roberts Rebellion.

    The Tourney at Harrenhal took place at 281 AC. It is here where the seeds of Roberts Rebellion were planted. The obvious act which most people identify with the Tourney at Harrenhal is when Prince Rhaeger was crowned champion and rode past his wife Elia Martell to name Lyanna Stark Queen of Love and Beauty. Though this may appear to be the most prominent moment in the entire tourney it is not. In A Storm of Swords Meera Reed tells Bran about the Knight of the Laughing Tree; A Mystery knight who entered the list at the Tourney (Many believe it is Howland Reed Meera's and Jojens father and great friend of Ned Stark). In any event Bran interrupts her story claiming its not true nor has he ever heard this story before (he's never hear it before because Ned forbade anyone at Winterfell to speak of Ashara Dayne that includes Old Nan) Meera disregards his comment and continues to tell the story. In the story she uses code names as a means to label each individual (I will not list all the names or go into the full story as I want to stay on track of the events as it relates to Ned)

    Brandon Stark- The Wild Wolf
    Ned Stark- The Quiet Wolf

    The importance of the story is when Meera tells Bran that the wild wolf (Brandon stark; Neds older brother) approached Ashara Dayne to dance with Ned. Brandon was already betrothed to Catelyn Tully and was trying to help his younger brother. Ned and Ashara dance and hit it off and both fall head over heels for each other. Cant really knock Ned he's the 2nd eldest son so everything is promised to Brandon whose betrothed to Catelyn so he may as well get his d-ck wet with whom he wants plus she's f--king gorgeous. The Tourney ends 10 days later and everyone goes there separate ways... An unknown time later it turns out that Rhaeger kidnapped Lyanna Stark who is betrothed to Robert Baratheon and shit hits the fan. No one knows exactly where Ned goes after the tourney but it is known that he has to travel north through the mountains of the moon and the Vale as a means to call the banners. Just from that fact its safe to assume Ned went south somewhere with someone... Ned was with Ashara Dayne (aka Septa Lemore somewhere near Starfall (the castle of House Dayne) They were with each other for at least a year plus (Idk exactly how the westerosi calendar works but its pretty "earth" like) in that time its safe to assume Ned and Ashara fell in love and did the tango a few times... I will leave off here as this is a very lengthy post and a lot to take in; plus I want to leave some room for discussion and questions! So what happens next?!?!?!?!?!?!
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
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  2. Tha_Goat
    Posts: 587
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    Tha_Goat

    A man got to have a code

    Jun 8, 2017
    Glad to see this had people interested... Anyways I'll continue this through the end with hope some people will join the discussion! Now the next piece of history that we must look at is in 282. Brandon Stark is in Riverrun when the announced date of his marriage between he and Catelyn will be. Little Finger was 15 years old and being fostered at Riverrun and asks for Catelyn Tully's hand. He has a duel with Brandon Stark as a means to win her hand. Little Finger gets absolutely destroyed and almost dies from his wounds. Note Brandon Stark is in Riverrun when the wedding date is announced and after his duel with Little Finger he return north to join his fathers wedding party and promises Catelyn he will be back. On their way back to Riverrun news reaches them that Rhaeger has abducted Lyanna and rode straight to Kings Landing instead of going to Riverrun. Most people know what happened at this moment. Brandon enters the Red Keep shouts out for Rhaeger to come out and Die... Instead King Aerys arrests Brandon (for plotting to kill Prince Rhaeger) demands that his father comes to Kings Landing to plead their fealty to house Targaryen and the realm. Once Rickard Stark enters the Red Keep he to is arrested and was burnt alive with wildfyre. Brandon was chained up and strangled to death as a means to save his father. This is extremely important to note because it gives a proper timeline of the events! So just a reminder...

    281- Tourney of Harrenhal (Ned meets Ashara)
    282- Abduction of Lyanna Stark and deaths of Rickard and Brandon Stark
    282-283- Roberts Rebellion

    After the deaths of Rickard and Brandon Jon Arryn was told by king Aerys to bring the head of Robert Baratheon (lyanna's betrothed) and Ned! Instead he says no and raises the banners. At this point we know that Ned hearing the news of his father/brother/sister is making his way north to call the banners. Here is where it gets very interesting. After crossing the mountains of the moon and the fingers he hires a fisherman to take him to White Harbor. I don't have the exact dialogue from the books but I believe in A Dance With Dragons a Davos Chapter he is "imprisoned" in the Wolfs Den (I don't want to spend to much on the wolfs den at the moment but its basically a prison but has the luxury feel of any great castle giving Davos the thought that it isn't a prison at all but a hide out. As he was being hidden from the Freys and the Lannisters at this point. More on that another time. They were hiding Ashara.) During the chapter we get the tale of the fishermans daughter. The gentlemen being described in the story is Ned and he was with a women and baby! After he lands in White Harbor he goes to Winterfell and joins the rebellion. (It is very possible it could have been a different child of his that doesn't have a very long life). In the books we are told immediately Jon's age (14 then 15) The first mention of Robb's age is 15 but not till 23 chapters into the book after the mention of Jon turning 15 making him the eldest and lines up ideally with the timeline! Jon couldn't be the baby born in the Tower of Joy as that takes place in 284 (Will get to that later but if your born in 284 and the current year is 300 you would be 16 not 15.) This is where is gets very tricky... Ned married Ashara at some point after the Tourney at Harrenhal!!! This is extremely important to the story and the proof is the following:
    [​IMG]
    When Tywin finds out Robb marries Jeyne Westering after bedding her... (Talisa Stark in the shows) Tywin tells the reader that he is his "Fathers son" perhaps a clue that Robb followed in the footsteps of his old man. This probably is the hardest event to prove definitively because no one knew where Ned was nor his relationship with Ashara (Ned and Ashara likely married in White Harbor as they have weirwoods there and believe in the old gods (this is a must remember). In A Storm of Swords Arya is captured by the brotherhood without banners and meets a boy named Edric Dayne (the lord of Starfall his aunt and uncle are Ashara/Arthur aka sword of the morning) his nickname is Ned (for Ned Stark). Erdric goes on tell Arya about Ned and Ashara's relationship and how much he was respected and loved by their entire house. Think about this for a second Ned must have been truly loved by them even after he "killed" (which I don't believe he did but thats for another day) Arthur Dayne the sword of the morning and is the cause of Ashara's "suicide" (which didn't happen either) that they willingly call the new lord of Starfall after Ned! Now Arya being Arya doesn't believe him and freaks out because what does she really know she's only a child and Ned forbade anyone of speaking about Ashara (Also the only children of Ned who is described as looking like a Stark/Ned is Jon and Arya the rest of the children have the Tully look). At this point Ned reaches Winterfell leaving Ashara at White Harbor and joins forces with Robert/Jon/Hoster and wins the Battle of the Bells. (Just a FYI history lesson about the battle of bells is Robert's savage move of hiding in a brothel while Jon Connington was looking for him). We have to note that the Lannisters have not called their banners for either side and without another major house on there side Ned/Robert/Jon are toast. In steps Lord Hoster Tully and the worst woman in the entire series Catelyn Tully. As a means to join the fight Hoster Demands Ned to marry Catelyn in his brothers place and Jon to Marry Lysa. In the midst of a rebellion Ned and Co don't exactly have time on their side and he is forced into his marriage with Cat. When these negotiations were taking place it is important to note that this is when the rift between The Blackfish and his older brother and liege lord begin. It is noted that after these negotiations Blackfish took his own sigil and left house Tully to give his service to House Arryn and became the knight of the gate in the Vale. Hoster had Southron Ambitions and wanted to improve his house' rank through marriage and politics. Blackfish clearly didn't want to force Ned's hand but there was nothing he can do. Ned marries Cat in the sept at Riverrun in the EYES OF THE SEVEN. This is very important because Ned is marrying twice without getting the first one annulled or Hoster straight up doest care and mind that he is already married. Moreover Ned and all northerners don't accept the 7 as their golds and they only accept the old gods and marriages in the North must be done in front of a Weirwood. Ned even makes a comment how he has shamed all of his family. Why did he shame his family (especially since he doesn't really have any at this point except for Ashara and Jon) He married in front of the 7 which isn't accepted in the North and he technically has 2 wives so that could bring on some shame. After this Prince Rhaeger emerges out of no where and loses the Battle of the Trident and Tywin sacks Kings Landing. This ultimately concluded the rebellion at the end of 283. However their is still the siege at Storms End. Robert orders Ned to break the siege and successfully does so. At this point Ned is searching for Lyanna and happens to go precisely to the Tower of Joy. (Lyanna and Rhaeger most likely hid out in the crypts of Winterfell or in Winterfell somewhere but thats for another day). Let me know what you think so far and if you have any questions ask away. Ill probably finish this "story" in the next post. We will pick up next time at the Tower of Joy. If you want to be mentioned let me know and Ill keep a tab fam.
     
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  3. Tha_Goat
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    Tha_Goat

    A man got to have a code

    Jun 13, 2017
    At least people are reading this post and hopefully they are intrigued enough to write a post... To conclude this we must now finally look at the Tower of Joy and Ned's travels! I just want to back track things up a bit here...

    281- Tourney at Harrenhal
    282- Abduction of Lyanna and deaths of Rickard and Brandon
    282-283- Roberts Rebellion
    283- Robb Stark born at Riverrun
    284- Tower of Joy

    Somewhere in these years Ned married Ashara and possible had Jon in late 282-283 or even very early 284 (most likely in mid-late 283 Jon was born)

    After the siege at Storms End Ned travels towards Dorne and come upon the Tower of Joy. Which is literally in the middle of no where someone must have told Ned to travel near here (my bet is Varys or Pycelle but no one really knows. Most likely Varys though You just can't let the fact that out of the entire realm Ned by chance stumbles upon the location of his sister. Something doesn't add up...) Ned and company arrive at the Tower of Joy and see's 3 members of the Kingsguard Ser Oswell Whent Ser Athur Dayne and the Lord Commander Ser Gerold Hightower. First off as readers we have to note that 3 of the best fighters in the entire world are just casually outside of this random tower and not hiding or inside. The 3 of them could have easily defeated Ned and his entire company if they were positioned properly. I don't know why they would just be hanging around outside especially if they're protecting the Princes' pregnant mistress/girlfriend. In the books Ned said he defeated Arthur Dayne NOT KILLED. This is a huge distinction that we must make. If Ned killed him or Howland Reed Ned would have said he was killed in the fighting not defeated! Arthur Dayne is most likely still alive and he is Mance Rayder! Mance was killed in the show but in the books he's very much alive and currently a captive of Ramsey Bolton. They both have very striking similarities but I don't want to spend to much time on that. If anyone is interested ill do a write up on it. Anyway Ned and Co get into a dispute with the Kingsguard and everyone is killed except Howland Reed and ned (I also believe that the Kingsguard members didn't die and are alive and well.) Ned Runs up the stairs to his dying sister and there he see's her in her pool of blood and a new born baby AND a wet nurse! There was another person with Lyanna she was most likely the girl we as readers know as Willa. Edric Dayne says to Arya that Willa was Jons mother and or wet nurse. Anyway Ned see's his sister and she says to him to promise to watch out for her baby boy. Theres only one major issue. He is the spitting image of Rhaeger and has full blown Targ Traits. The platinum white blonde hair the blue purple lilac color eyes. Ned knowing Robert and his current mission to kill every targaryen isn't going to be very thrilled that the women he loves and is betrothed to just gave birth to a replica of Rhaeger. This is where it gets really interesting so pay attention (if your just a show watcher this is going to be brand new to you so spoilers either turn around or prepared to be blown away)
    [​IMG]

    In a Dance with Dragons Tyrion is shipped off to Pentos via Varys to escape the clutches of his family. Tyrion being the witty little drunk that he is discovers a very special someone during his travels through the free cities on his way to Mereen.

    But before we move on any further Rhaegers son Aegon was born in either 281 or 282 making him either 18 or 19 by the start of A Dance With Dragons... When Tywin sacked Kings Landing Varys claimed he switched baby aegon out with another and that he was shipped off the narrow sea to safety as was being groomed his entire life to be the rightful King but more importantly a good King who rules for his people and not for one self... I think its safe to assume baby Aegon was killed by Tywin and Varys knows that...

    Anyway Tyrion is on his way to meet Danny (Yes in the books Tyrion still hasn't met Danny) and he is on a ship called the Shy Maid with a Sell Sword going by the name of Griff and his son Young Griff. Another sellsword named Duck a Septa named Lemore (most likely Ashara Dayne as Tyrion points out she has stretch marks from a previous birth...) and a rhyonish couple helping them navigate the waters (Just some more IAF history Young Griff and Egg from the Dunk and Egg tales are the only 2 characters that have a floppy brim straw hat and a knight/guard egg has a dunk so why not give aegon a duck. These 2 characteristics can't be thrown out the window both are wearing the same straw hat using a alias and are accompanied on their journey with a sellsword/knight who eventually become the first of their kingsguard....) The first thing Tyrion lets us know is that the boy is about 15/16 (there is a drastic difference between a 15/16 year old and a 18/19 year old) (15/16 fits ideally with the timeline and the Tower of Joy. He would be 16 at the time of ADWD the age tyrion puts aegon's age). Now before anyone says anything we saw ned in the tower of joy with baby Jon and HBO confirmed... Firstly f--k off secondly please note that the tower of Joy scenes we get from Ned are during his fever dreams (he was drugged up on milk of the poppy (if anybody has a vile of that let me know). and his dreams don't depict the truth of the situation. George has even said It's a fever dream and that doesn't mean its 100% accurate and HBO has lied to us before about Thrones) Back to tyrion...[​IMG]

    Tyrion who is going by the nickname Hugor Hill or Yollo finally pieces everything out. After having some wine and a few games of Cyvasse it comes to him... Why does a son of a sellsword need 1) a body guard 2) a arms trainer 3) a septa... Tyrion notices these don't exactly add up along with his looks. We even get from a Jon connington chapter that Aegon is the spitting image of Rhaeger. This Young Griff imposter even has dyed his hair blue "in memory" of his Tyroshi mother. The only woman in the world of ice and fire whose associated with the color Blue is Lyanna Stark... Anyway Tyrion being his witty self calls out Young Griff for who he really is and his companions... It turns out that Griff is the exile lord Jon Connington (the dumbass who lost the battle of the bells because he didn't check the brothels....) Young Griff is Aegon (please note that Aegon thinks he's the rightful heir and son of Rhaeger Targaryen and Elia Martell and not Lyanna Stark (He would be 3/4 years older if he was the "real" aegon. After spending sometime with Tyrion he is finally convinced to head to westeros without his "aunt" and not come to her as a beggar... I don't want to spend to much time on Young Griff's story and future so ill stop here on that. So back to the tower of joy
    [​IMG]

    Ned promises Lyanna he will take care of her boy. After Lyanna kicks the bucket and Ned has figured out what to do with this baby who is the spitting image of Rhaeger he rides to Starfall with baby aegon... Ashara left White Harbor at some point to come home and stay away from the fighting it is here where we get the most remarkable father like son baby swap!!! Ned claims to have returned to Starfall to bring back the ancestral sword Dawn of House Dayne. It his here where ned see's Ashara with baby jon and Ashara see's baby aegon with Ned. Ned swaps aegon for jon. This swap solves all the troubles ned would encounter if he took aegon home. He wouldn't have to worry about hiding a targaryen from his best friend and future king and he knows Ashara will look after aegon as they loved each other. Obviously history tells us Ashara threw herself off the roof of the castle and killed herself because the grief was to much for her to bear that her lover killed her brother... Ashara most likely crossed the narrow sea with baby aegon with limited people knowing (ned/varys (possibly)/howland reed(possibly/connington) We must note Jon has done the baby swap as well! For book readers this is no surprise he swaps Mance rayder's baby with Gilly's as a means to save him from Mel (Father like son)... Ned returns to winterfell with baby jon and the rest is history. All of these events fit the timeline and has george's fingerprints all over. A real "fake" aegon is the perfect twist... So lets just Recap:

    281: Need meets Ashara at the Tourney at Harrenhal
    282- Abduction of Lyanna and deaths of Rickard and Brandon
    282-283- Roberts Rebellion
    283- Robb Stark born at Riverrun
    284- Tower of Joy

    Ned marries Ashara at some point thus making Jon his only true born child and eldest child! I hope everyone enjoyed this post as a means to start this thread off right! Any question or comments leave below! For the next part I'm most likely going to do a character profile of Bloodraven or Dameon Targaryen even possibly Varys.
     
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  4. Jinn
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    Jun 15, 2017
    Is this about the book The World of Ice and Fire or the series ASOIAF? I think you recapped everything.
     
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  5. Tha_Goat
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    Tha_Goat

    A man got to have a code

    Jun 24, 2017
    Honestly it's a bit of a mix. The material to be covered in this thread will be deciphered using all material George has given us; either through interviews or all the texts he has given us. The mystery of Jon's parentage is able to be uncovered mostly through ASIOAF; however the parallels between Young Griff and Egg are extremely similar and should not be overlooked. George is a master at foreshadowing and repeating history. Mind you we still have 2 more books to be delivered that can change the direction of the story. George has even said "theres a major twist in the books the show cannot do." That to me is either mance is revealed to be arthur dayne or rhaeger and or stannis is the great other (for those who read the books you will understand who the great other is) The books endgame and the shows endgame will be very different. Do you read the books too?
     
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  6. Tha_Goat
    Posts: 587
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    Tha_Goat

    A man got to have a code

    Jun 24, 2017
    I hope everyone enjoyed that their favorite bastard is not a bastard at all but the only true born child of Ned stark. I gave it some thought as to which direction we shall move this towards. Now I'm going to take this space as a way to explain how differently the show and the books are in related to the Dornish storyline

    Spoilers Ahead!
    [​IMG]

    First things first. THIS IS THE BIGGEST f--k UP THE SHOWRUNNERS HAVE EVER DONE!!! I understand that yes even thrones has only x amount of money and can only incorporate so much. However the portrayal of Dorne in the show was extremely disappointing. Nearly everything up till oberyn's death was spot on and given there wasn't that much material to cover at least they got that right. The first thing I want to cover is the sand snakes. These dumb annoying wenches don't nearly play as big as a role in the books as they do in the show. They do have a part to play but it is significantly smaller. Oberyn's brother and prince Doran's daughter Arianne Martell plays a very large role as does his 2 sons of them you know trystane being betrothed to Myrcella Lannister (his role isn't any bigger in the books than is the shows) but its his other brother Quentyn Martell who we we will discuss. Before we dive any further the first thing I want everyone to know is the pact. Sometime before the events in "AGOT" there was a pact drawn up between Doran and members of House Targaryen. The pact basically agreed the marriage between Viserys and Arianne. Obviously this never come to fruitions because:
    [​IMG]
    More on this pact and the actions taken after at another time...

    The Dornish Storyline in the show we see in the show is dominated by the sand snakes and they just forged a alliance with the queen of thorns and danny on behest of varys and his epic speaking of 3 words. Thats all the spider needs to do a complete goat... To highlight some of the differences:
    -Sand Snakes did not kill Doran and Aero Hotah (especially in that lame fashion)
    -Sand Snakes are imprissoned for some time in the books
    -Doran's daughter Arianne tries to go behind his back to crown Myrcella that ends with dire consequences
    -Sand Snakes are also a lot younger with the exception of 1 who is very friendly with Arianne
    -Ser Arys Oakheart the member of the kingsguard who went with Myrcella is killed by Aero Hotah when Arianne stages to crown her Queen of Dorne and give her a "slightly" better claim for the irone throne than Tommen (Arys Oakheart was also Arianne's lover)
    -Gerold "Darkstar" Dayne (this character is cut out of the shows but yes the last name should be familiar. This character could very well be the real Aegon!!! He is described as having dark purple eyes like danny and Doran even goes on to say "Darkstar is the most dangerous man in dorne" What makes him so dangerous he's a 20 something year old dayne (he is describes as being 20 years olds fits nicely with the real argons birth if he's really 19) We know nothing else really about his parents. At the end of the epilogue in A Dance With Dragons Varys kills Grand Maester Pycelle (he shits himself so badly Varys has to crack a window >>>) then he and 2 little birds go on to kill Kevin Lannister and he tells him Aegon is alive and has been being groomed for being a king the entire time. If he's dead why lie to a dying man? Because his little birds are around thats possible or its because he truly is alive and he's Young Griff and the son of Rhaeger and Lyanna or darkstar and or someone else is the real Aegon alive and well.
    -Arianne is sent by Doran to sniff out this supposed Aegon (Young Griff) and try to secure a alliance with him and invade westeros and destroy the bannisters and claim the throne. In one of the sample chapters Aegon has successfully taken griffins roost and STORMS END and Arianne is being taken to meet him by Jon Connington
    -Quntyn Martell was sent by Doran to secure an alliance with Danny after getting rejected by Danny and told to leave by Barristan instead he storms the great pyramid to try and ride either rhaegel or viserion. As you expect he gets burnt to a crisp and fails miserably.
    -Myrcella still alive and is missing a ear thanks to Darkstar (poor girl)
    -Jaime and Bronn never go to dorne

    As you can see the Dornish storyline was adapted so poorly and lazy the the show runners should be ashamed. The should have easily included Arianne no reason not to. Hopefully the show can rectify the dornish line the last 2 seasons at least by giving the sand snakes painful deaths. For the book readers we have a interesting ride ahead of us with Arianne meeting Aegon should be incredible!

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
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  7. Tha_Goat
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    Tha_Goat

    A man got to have a code

    Jun 29, 2017
    I know the season 7 trailer just came out and I'm sure people want to discuss the upcoming season. But lets be honest were tired of talking and just want it already! Shit is about to pop! Danny in westeros is a completely different game. We already know she's not going to die (at least not yet...) or jon or tyrion for that matter so anyone else is fair game. I think its highly unlikely for Cercei and Jaime to die this season... But hey you just never know what will happen in thrones plus a king and or queen die every season... So with that said I think its safe to assume Cercei is fair game especially coupled with the volanqar theory... However i'm putting my money on the queen of thorns. She's a "queen" and she's played her part nothing more left for her except to die. How she will die and by whose hands Ill keep to myself unless you want to know my thoughts. Enough show talk though... I want to know peoples thoughts on Jon's birth and where you stand? Did I convince you enough to hop on the N+A=J train or are you still not convinced and still on the R+L=J train? or you don't know what to think and you want to murder the answers out of George?
    [​IMG]
    Well I'm about to serve you all up curveballs and explain why and how Jon is the son of Rhaeger and Lyanna... In a clash of King's Ygritte tells Jon the story about Bael the Bard. The story goes as the following: A wildling named Bael was a highly skilled musician (sounds like some on we know and we know how much george loves foreshadowing...Mance is a highly skilled musician who plays the lute and has infiltrated Winterfell using his skills as a musician to gain entry to the castle. He fell in with King Roberts host in the very beginning part of the series. The first time Jon meets Mance he is playing the song "The Dornishman's Wife" a ironic nod to Rhaeger being married to Elia Martell (his dornish wife) yet he loved Lyanna Stark the exact opposite of a Dornish person) In the story Bael infiltrates Winterfell with his music skills and instantly seduces a daughter of a Stark lord and disappears with her (in the story he left a winter rose in her bed for her father. These are blue flowers and remember Lyanna (the only women in the series who is connected to the color blue) was given a crest of winter roses by Rhaeger at the tourney of harrenhal... The only known place in the realm where these flowers grow are far in the north specifically in Winterfell's glass gardens...). Though the story parallels' Mance to the nth degree its supposed to depict Rhaeger as he was a Bard as well. He was most deadly with his harp and his harp was just as famous as he was...About a year later the girl reappears with a son... A son belonging to Bael... Bael goes back north of the wall gathers a great host and becomes king beyond the wall only to face his son the current Lord Stark in battle. He can't come to grips to kill his son and his son kills him instead. Resembles the moment when Jon kills mance in the show... In the books Mance is a captive of Ramsey Bolton and Jon is dead (obviously he going to come back to life) Mance is sent by Jon to infiltrate WInterfell and takes the name Abel. A anagram of Bael... Mance could be saying his final goodbyes soon in the books and Jon will be somewhat to blame for his death. I don't want to stray to far off track but Bael the Bard is one of the most important stories in the entire series with that said I'm going to shift this back to R+L=J. Rhaeger giving the winter roses to Lyanna is a pretty obvious similarity. But its not the only one. John has a extremely deep connection with the crypts. Only Starks are allowed in the Crypts. Regardless of who his biological parents are he undoubtably has Stark blood deep in his veins... The biggest mystery to Lyanna's kidnapping was where was she? No one knows. Her and Rhaeger hid in the crypts knowing no one would check for them there and during there time in the crypts (remember Lyanna knows the Crypts and Winterfell just as much as any stark) she easily could have known secret ways around without being seen. Jon has fever dreams where he see's himself going in the crypts and a voice telling him to go further as he has something to either find or confront.
    [​IMG]
    It is in the crypts where Jon will find the hard proof that his father is no other than Rhaeger and his mother is Lyanna. Remember that harp I mentioned? It's current whereabouts are completely unknown but I think its safe to say the Harp is in Lyanna's tomb and ned placed it there. Ned knows Robert would never open her tomb or decimate it any way nor any one would open a tomb in the first place especially in the crypts of winterfell (the crypts are one of the most interesting and mysterious places in the entire history of IAF) so it would be the perfect hiding spot. Rhaegers harp which everyone would recognize would be the definitive hard proof Jon would need to either accept who his true parents are or get people to believe him not just words on a paper or spoken out of Bran's mouth from some vision he claims to have seen... During there time in the crypts Rhaeger and Lyanna have Jon and need to show there faces eventually as 1000000's of people are dying because of them. So eventually Rhaeger comes out of hiding and loses to Robert on the Trident. Now the hardest part to dissect at this point is the Tower of Joy. I speculate Rhaeger was having her escorted south for safety reasons as to where I haven't a clue. But there you have it folks Jon is the son Rhaeger and Lyanna. Or is he? You decide let me know what you think! Theres one other piece of "evidence" that gives credence to Jon being related to Danny and that is the Dragon has 3 heads (Jon being one of them). I will discuss this in the next post!
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. JIGGA MANE
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    Jun 30, 2017
    yeah
     
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  9. ReeceHargreaves
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    Jun 30, 2017
    Thanks to you I don't have to read the book, I can just read your posts.
     
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  10. Tha_Goat
    Posts: 587
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    Tha_Goat

    A man got to have a code

    Jun 30, 2017
    Yeah what? What train are you on? N+A=J or R+L=J. Or neither lol
    read the books. I've read all the material in a WOIAF multiple times and I still find new shit each time. Besides I could be wrong. And nothing from nothing my post/analysis doesn't do the books justice I could post the actual dialogue spoken in the books (that would surely get you interested in reading the books) but it would literally take weeks to do one post. It will also be the greatest thing you've ever read guaranteed. There's so much story the show doesn't cover especially as it relates to Tyrion and Cercei.
     
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  11. Tha_Goat
    Posts: 587
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    Tha_Goat

    A man got to have a code

    Jun 30, 2017
    THE 3 HEADED DRAGON:
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    [​IMG]

    "The Dragon has 3 heads" is one of the most important puzzles in the entire series of ASIOAF. We first learn about this when Dany enters the house of the undying. Now this is a extremely important part that show watchers will never fully know. Not because of the execution of it portrayed on the show it was just missing many important elements. Dany see's 5 different rooms each room depicting a different scene. Room 1 is a woman being savagely attacked by 4 rat like-men. This is suppose to represent the war of the 5 kings fighting over land (Renly was already killed at this point) Room 2 shows a savage slaughter with corpses all over the place and dead man with a wolfs head (the red wedding) Room 3 shows her old house in Bravos Room 4 shows a barbed throne with a man saying, " Let him be king over charred bones and cooked meat," and "Let him be king of ashes." This is no other than her father King Aerys just before his death and the sack of Kings Landing and Room 5 Shows a man who looks strikingly like her bother Viserys but he is taller and his eyes are a more dark indigo rather then lilac. He is speaking to a woman who is nursing a newborn babe, telling her that the child's name should be Aegon and saying that "What better name for a king?". The woman asks him if he will make a song for the child, and he replies that he has a song and that "He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire." He appears to look at Dany then, as if seeing her, and then he adds that "There must be one more," and "The dragon has three heads." This is Rhaeger and Lyanna talking right after the birth of baby Aegon (YG) and the mention of the prophecy of the prince that was promised and the dragon needing 3 heads. Just to give everyone some history before we continue. Growing up Rhaeger was extremely studios and preferred books & music to iron until one day he read something in a book and appeared the next morning in the training yard asking for weapons and armor as he must take up arms now. Growing up he thought he was the prince that was promised. The day Rhaeger was born was the Tragedy at Summerhall. King Aegon V (Egg from the dunk and egg stories) Ser Duncan the tall as well as other members of house Targaryen died in a fire. The cause of the fire is unknown but many believe it to be connected to King Aegons passion to restore dragons. TPTWP prophecy states the individual would be "born amidst salt and smoke" Salt from peoples tears Smoke from the fire... Rhaeger eventually comes to grips that he is not the prophecy but is CONVINCED that it will come from his bloodline. I don't mean to be a debbie downer here but I have to throw it out because there is a slight chance we don't get a "dragon with 3 heads." Dany was convinced by the Daesh Khaeleen concerning Raego. Obviously that doest come to fruition. With that said and George's writing style he could just be leading us down a dark road with a brick wall at the end. I don't think thats the case though! In some form we will have 3 heads out there if there all on the same side; now that remains to be seen...

    [​IMG]

    We've established Dany is one of the heads I don't think I need to spend the time to lay that out but what everyone must know is that Dany's mother died birthing her (fun fact she's known as Danerys Stormborn because a crazy storm raged on Dragonstone sinking many ships in the targaryen fleet)So were going to go straight to Jon and tyrion.

    If Jon is the son of R+L then he is definitely one of the heads and his whole biological make up fits "ICE & FIRE." Like Dany's mother Jon's mother died birthing him as well (this is only true if he's R+L and not N+A) He has the blood of the dragon in him yet he has lived his entire life in the ice cold north. The story is "A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE" Dany is Fire Jon ICE . Jon has yet to discover who he really is and I think show Jon and book Jon are going to be extremely different from this point. We've seen how the dead react when brought back to life and they don't tend to be very nice except Beric. Lady Stoneheart is a heartless cold stone killer who gives no fucks and well we know the other the wights the white walker are not exactly nice. You get where i'm going at.
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    This is literally the last dude in the world I want to be having a joint with and eating tabs of lucy bad vibes all around this f--ker...

    So between all the evidence of Jon's parentage in my previous post and him being one of the 3 heads he is in fact the son of Rhaeger and Lyananna. Side note to have the blood of the dragon doesn't mean you need to have targaryen blood it means you have to have valyrian blood. The Taragreyns aren't the only people who ride dragons...

    Dany is head 1
    Jon is head 2

    Tyrion is head 3. Tyrion has always had a fascination with Dragons he even has had dreams about them. Dragon dreams are heavily associated with targaryens (I'm sure other families from valyria such as the Velaron's who were able to ride dragons had dragon dreams as well. The Daynes most likely have Valyrian blood in their genes as well. They even have the "targ" look. Ashara definitely has the eyes.) Now I'm not going to get very in-depth here as I will save that for the next post but I think its very likely in both the books and the show Tyrion gets a dragon and rides it.
    [​IMG]
    Tywin Lannister is not Tyrion's father
     
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  12. Tha_Goat
    Posts: 587
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    Tha_Goat

    A man got to have a code

    Jul 1, 2017
    A+J=T
    [​IMG]

    Tyrion Lannister is not the son of Tywin and Joanna Lannister

    Before we go any further we have to explore the past specifically the relationship between Tywin and Aerys. Growing up Tywin and Aerys were best friends as they got older their relationship deteriorated immensely. To put it shortly Tywin happily reigned as King Aery's hand for the majority of his reign. It wasn't until Aerys started going mad and berating Tywin and trying to humiliate and 1 up all the time. Aerys declared Jaime a member of his Kingsguard as a means to stick it to Tywin because his precious golden boy was essentially stripped of everything that is was and will be House Lannister. Obviously that doesn't happen and Jaime kills Aery's and saves the day. Tywin is one of the most interesting figures in the whole WOIAF it is said the only person who was able to make him happy and smile is his cousin wife Joanna. When she died it was said a part of Tywin died with her that day but will have to cover Tywin another time. The big rumor is at Aery's fathers coronation Joanna had given up her maidenhood to Prince Aerys. In 263 Tywin marries Joanna in the great Sept of Baelor. King Aerys reportedly took unwonted liberties with Joanna's bedding ceremony to Tywin's displeasure. Soon after Queen Rhaella dismissed Joanna Lannister from her service. No reason for this was ever given, but Lady Joanna departed at once for Casterly Rock and seldom visited King's Landing thereafter. In 272 King Aerys throws a great tourney in Kings Landing to commemorate his 10th anniversary of his reign. Joanna brings 6 year old Cercei and Jaime to present them to court. During the tourney Aerys was deep in his cups and asks if nursing them had "ruined her breasts, which were so high and proud." Tywin Lannister attempted to return his chain of office the next morning, but the king refused to accept his resignation. Now Tywin has been abused verbally and mocked by Aerys many times before and has never acted on resigning as Hand. Something else happened here; something terrible because he acted to resign immediately after. Joanna gives birth to Tyrion in 273... 9 months later. Now Aerys madness begins to recede because his wife finally provides him with a son Jahaerys but he dies shortly after his birth and Aerys blames the wet nurse and has her and her kin tortured and killed. The fortnight after Aerys fasted and made a walk of repentance across the city to the Great Sept. Why would he do this? Why would he repent his sins? King Aerys felt bad that he is to partially blame for Joanna's death. After this Aerys announced he will only sleep with his lawful wife for the rest of his days. [​IMG]

    The first thing everyone must understand is Tyrion's look. Tyrion has 1 key Lannister trait and it is not his hair but eye(s). Lets take a look at book Tyrion and show Tyrion as it relates to their looks:

    [​IMG]

    Tyrion has stunted legs 1 eye thats green (Lannister) 1 eye thats black (Targaryen) and "hair so blonde it seemed white opposed to the golden blonde hair associated with the Lannisters. Tyrion like Jon and Dany lost his mother during his birth. Everything in TWOIAF has to have balance and the parallels have to be polar opposite or mirror each other.

    Tyrion has the blood of dragon; coupled with his fascination with dragons he is one of the heads along with Dany & Jon and the son of King Aerys and Joanna. This version of the 3 headed dragon would mirror the original with Aegon the conqueror and his sisters Visenya and Rhaenys. We get 1 female instead of 2 and 2 males instead of 1. Also it fits in terms of the names:
    AegON- TyriOn/jON (this works to if Jon is Rhaeger's son and his real name is Jahaerys (RaenYS/)
    DanerYS/RaenYS Now this is of course could be very wrong and to a certain degree I want it to because they're are so many combinations each that can alter the story in so many ways. Other possible heads are:

    Bran: bran is told by the 3 eyed crow in his dreams he will fly (we will dive deep into bran's character soon he is a extremely important character) I don't think bran will be a "head" though I do think he will have some correlation with a dragon

    Arya: Arya like Bran/Jon and most starks can warg (there is also a strong consensus that Arya and Jon will be together and it will be Dany/Jon/Arya as the heads. The names fit to here as well AegON/JON DanerYS/RaenYS ArYA/VisenYA). This would be the most "identical scenario" 1 male 2 female. I don't think Arya is a head though.

    Aegon: Obviously if Aegon is truly the son of Rhaeger and Lyanna he is already a head as Rhaeger told us. This aegon could very well be a imposter and is truly a backyre being propped up by Illyrio and Varys. We will have to take some time to talk about this.

    Varys: Varys is a Targaryen. Varys name fits and his name overall is very "targ" esque. AerYS/AenYS/DanerYS/RaenYS... Its also universally speculated that Vary's is either a descendent from Aerion Brightflame or a bastard of his tree. Varys has kings blood in his veins...

    Darkstar: If he is the "real" Aegon that was shipped away safely across the narrow sea well he's got a good chance to be a head.

    "Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark and you. A small man with a big shadow snarling in the midst of it all" Maqarro to Tyrion

    OLD: Bloodraven/Aemon?
    Young: Dany/Jon/Aegon/Darkstar?
    True: Dany/Bloodraven/Aemon/Jon/Tyrion?
    False: Aegon/Jon/Tyrion?
    Bright: Varys?
    Dark: Darkstar/Aegon?

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

    #12
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  13. Jakey
    Posts: 11,174
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    Jakey

    You Reckon

    Jul 4, 2017
    Farkk i gotta read some of this later. Varys at Targaryen?? Thats interesting.
     
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  14. Tha_Goat
    Posts: 587
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    Tha_Goat

    A man got to have a code

    Jul 4, 2017
    Hell ya! I think this reveal is going to happen in both the books and the show. In some fashion he has "dragon" blood in him. He could be a Blackfyre as well but if I'm a betting man i'm going with him being related to Aerion Brightflame. Just remember this thread is oriented towards the world and text George has made so there maybe characters and events you may have never heard of. Do you read the books?
     
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  15. Jakey
    Posts: 11,174
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    Jakey

    You Reckon

    Jul 4, 2017
    Not a big reader but I've read the first 2 books, which like you said was exactly like the show, might buy the others when I get the spare time.

    I've always know than Tywin wasn't Tyrion's father, you can even tell from the show, and I read somewhere before that he could be the Mad Kings son which I believe. But man I wouldnt even had thought about that stuff you said about Ned Stark, I would completely convinced with R+L=J.

    But yeah with Varys, it could be why he's always been fond of Tyrion, perhaps he knows he's a Targaryen as well.
     
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  16. Tha_Goat
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    Tha_Goat

    A man got to have a code

    Jul 4, 2017
    Finish the books trust me. The show and the books are very different and the next book A Storm of Swords is the best one imo. I'm personally on the N+A=J train everything just lines up better with this outcome. I think Aegon is legit and thats the perfect twist. Has "George" written all over it; a fake real Aegon come on lol>>> I also think Vary's shaves his head to keep his identity more secretive. I can't even begin to start how different the books and the shows are.
     
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  17. Australia
    Posts: 26,216
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    Joined: Nov 29, 2014

    Jul 4, 2017
    @Tha_Goat pretty cool shit here. havent read the books but i plan on going over your posts closer to gameo f thrones new season

    Also, what you said about bran where he is told "you will fly" my interpretation of that, was that he will warg into a dragon. Or i feel its a strong possibility. I originally thought around season 2/3 like "yup all these characters are going to meet at some point, Dany will likely lose a dragon/wont be able to control one of them and Bran will warg into it"

    like its pure speculation and i havent read the books, but I'm just thinking the dragons and bran are both really crucial to the story. Like i can just picture Jon riding a dragon that Bran warged into. seems kinda fitting.

    also whats the go with the dragon inside the wall? like tell me anything u can about that plz cus i find that shit interesting is it dead? hinted to be some zombie white walker dragon?
     
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  18. Tha_Goat
    Posts: 587
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    Tha_Goat

    A man got to have a code

    Jul 4, 2017
    I think Bran and Arya are honestly 2 of the most misunderstood characters as it relates to a general thrones fan (I.E. just being a show watcher) Bran and Arya's storyline get heat and or no love because of how disconnected they are with the rest of the story. But most people don't realize how important their story is. Arya especially. The scenes of her in the House of Black and White in the book are some of the most chilling scenes in the entire story. Now with Bran flying (and I won't map all the detail out here but ill make a post for you soon) When bran fell from a tower he's visited by the 3 Eyed CROW not a RAVEN (the show combined these 2 entities into 1) the crow tells him he will fly. When Winterfell gets burnt down Bran notices some "snake winged" like creature while hiding in the crypts. This is most likely some sort of dragon like creature. In one of Brans vision he see's this horrible atrocity taking place in the land of always winter and a creature so horrifying he has to look away. Now I'm not saying this is said creature but Winterfell takes its name most likely because this is the place where "Winter Fell" and Brandon the Builder built the castle over this thing to secure it from the realm. As it relates to a dragon specifically. George uses the term "Ice Dragon" several times throughout ASOIAF. He also has a book called the Ice Dragon and he's already said it is not set in TWOIAF that doesn't mean he didn't re use his idea. Winterfell is heated by something. As its walls are ventilated by hot air and has hot springs. There could very well be a dragon under Winterfell that is naturally warming up the air and the springs or it could be another natural factor. Some people also believe there is a clutch of dragon eggs in Winterfell as past Targaryen Kings have visited the north and Winterfell in the past. There could very well be a dragon in the wall as well only time will tell though. I don't think Jon will need Bran's help when it comes to dragon riding as Jon is a warg himself (and has the blood of old Valryia in some fashion whether his father is Rhaeger or Mother is Ashara he has "dragon" blood) and knows that. He's not as good at warging as Bran is but he can warg and knows he can. I can see book bran and show bran being very different from this point. Bran can very well be the great other and help the white walkers take over the world. He can also be a savior. In the show I think he will be a "savior" of some sorts and he will take over a "fallen" dragon. This is thrones no way Dany and all 3 of her dragons make it...
     
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  19. Australia
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    Jul 4, 2017
    I only read the first sentence and before we continue I just need to point out that ever since maisie williams turned 16 (legal age my country :coco: ) i've had a weird obsession with her - like one of those celebrity crush things that people get, i've never had one before though. Now I pay v close attention to Arya if not for her amazing acting and incredible screen presence, then, in hope of her getting the tits out for the boiz. can't f--king wait. will respond to the rest of your post after i read, just got a little excited.
     
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  20. Yoda777
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    Jul 4, 2017
    where is a good place to recap all the seasons before S7

    no time to rewatch everything
     
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